Members Zeromus-X Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 I'm listening to some recordings from my previous band that we did live, just off whatever cheap camcorder we happened to be borrowing at the time. We seem to have always managed to have just this huge wall of sound when we started playing. It's hard to explain but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. These weren't big places, but we'd always rent a soundguy who would handle PA duties. It was usually only about $150 for the soundguy with his equipment, so many times we had to take what we could get. A lot of it had to do, I feel, with the overall "sound" that we had -- it was very bass-heavy, with the guitars having a ton of bass and tuned down, the bass had its mids scooped and the sound coming through 2000W of PA subs on-stage, and the drummer with an 808 bass drop pad to use at certain points of songs. Well, now I'm doing something completely different. It's an older rock-and-roll style band, but with quite a few upbeat/faster songs (think things like the Ramones meets Lenny Kravitz). The guitarists' tones actually sound like guitars (Marshall heads, midrangey sound), and the bassist uses an Eden setup which has a pronounced midrange as well. We've been together practicing for almost a year now, and we've been going through our set twice a week at least a dozen times just to make sure every single thing is tight. We all play perfectly well timed with each other. We're using a vocals-only PA. It just seems like the wall-of-sound is missing that we had before. We've got a show Saturday that we're going to videotape to compare it to the recordings from my last band, but it just doesn't seem as "powerful", even though it seems like this time everyone's doing it the "right" way with their sounds. Is it maybe just because we're not running the whole band through the PA? The places we're playing are tiny bars for the most part, including the one this Saturday, but I know there's got to be a way without just cranking twelve stacks to eleven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 20, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yup, probably would give you more of what you want if the PA handles the brunt of the work. Obviously your band is completely different, so everything comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 20, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 The PA tomorrow won't be able to handle any kick. We've got enough power in terms of guitar and bass amps and speakers (a few stacks available to us for each) to tackle any job, but would it make a big difference if I took my Meyer sub out there and just ran kick through it? Maybe some bass guitar too? I don't have tom mics and can't afford to grab a set before the show. I figure pushing the kick out there would help since it's rock, but is it going to sound funky having just the kick done and none of the rest of the kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 20, 2006 CMS Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 A sub alone won't work for kick. There's plenty of kick above 100Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 I'm a big fan of the wall of silence. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted July 20, 2006 Members Share Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by Zeromus-X would it make a big difference if I took my Meyer sub out there and just ran kick through it? Maybe some bass guitar too? I don't have tom mics ... but is it going to sound funky having just the kick done and none of the rest of the kit? Get the kick out there any way you can -- It's essential for rock. Toms can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DTravz Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 My band used to just 'PA' the vocals too, but, as you pointed out, it was lacking. I went out and bought an inexpensive pair of subs and big amp and crossover, (cheap because I seem to be the only guy in the band with any outside source of income and therefore own the entire PA, van to haul it in, etc.), to add 'thump'. I now mic the kick and snare and run an overhead mic for the rest through a sub buss. I barely bleed the overhead and snare mics into the mix but give as much kick as I dare to. Now my wife, my biggest critique, says it sounds full and balanced. And we get a lot of positive comments from club owners and patrons alike BTW, the clubs we play are 100-250 ppl sized, which I like to think are in the small category. If we start playing larger clubs, I plan on trading these in on a pair of 'real' 2-18 cabs. Of course, the band may fall apart before that, since bands are fragile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 get a second marshall stack for the guitar player. automatic wall of sound, just add water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 I'm listening to some recordings from my previous band that we did live, just off whatever cheap camcorder A lot of the sound probably had to do with the limiter in the cameras audio circuitry as well. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 21, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 A lot of the sound probably had to do with the limiter in the cameras audio circuitry as well. Don't judge a book by it's cover. Probably, but a lot of people always commented it to us -- mostly other musicians. I can probably get away with sticking a little snare and the toms in the mains PA, they're decent 1x15 cabs (I have no clue what brand, but they can push a decent amount of power without distorting from what I've heard so far). Problem is that I don't have any mics or anything. I used to trigger the toms but the triggers were awful and I'm trying to keep things simple... they wouldn't fit this style of music anyway. I'll probably try running the kick to the sub, but yeah, I've got no way to send it to the highs, so it's going to be pretty much just all "boom" and no attack. I suppose that'll be better than nothing and we'll see what people say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 21, 2006 Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 Originally posted by DTravz (cheap because I seem to be the only guy in the band with any outside source of income and therefore own the entire PA, van to haul it in, etc.) *sigh* I know this boat. My drummer works full time now but he's got a credit card to pay off (he spent all his money on paintball, wtf). My guitarist has been out of work since december, and for some reason has three guitar amplifiers, five guitars, and is bent on getting more guitars and a new amp, what. the. {censored}). My singer is a bum and has no income whatsoever. High school dropout, oh lawd. I'm the one with a part-time job as I'm going to school, and also the only one putting any money into the band. Out of the five pedals in my guitarist's pedal board, 4 of them are mine. I haven't used them for almost 2 years now because he always has them "I need them" he says. All of the band's mics are mine, I bought and paid for all of our outboard PA gear, and I'm now currently paying for our new entire PA. Our old PA came to us from a grant from a local organization, sweet deal. But enough of that, I'm happy I guess because at least most of the stuff is mine and should the band split or I get kicked out they're all {censored}ed. For that wall of sound you'd pretty much need to upgrade to a decent PA and run everything through it. We have a relatively low-end PA and we run everything through it, we get a decent "wall of sound". We're always renting additional PA gear for bigger and outdoor stuff but for most of what we do our PA works, for now anyways. We're getting better and going bigger so we need a PA to match our progress, huzzah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted July 21, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2006 I'm finally in a band where I'm the guy with no money. It's kinda nice, in a way. The other guys are a bit older than I am, and all have decent jobs, whereas I just graduated so I'll be on the job hunt very soon, but nothing yet. I've got to say, it's great hearing a guitarist say "You know, there's this amp I was looking at that sounds awesome", and then have him show up with it to practice the next day, instead of running some {censored}ty thing for eight years while he saves up his pizza delivery money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glepko Posted July 22, 2006 Members Share Posted July 22, 2006 Originally posted by Mogwix *sigh* I know this boat. My drummer works full time now but he's got a credit card to pay off (he spent all his money on paintball, wtf). My guitarist has been out of work since december, and for some reason has three guitar amplifiers, five guitars, and is bent on getting more guitars and a new amp, . My singer is a bum and has no income whatsoever. I'm the one with a part-time job as I'm going to school, and also the only one putting any money into the band. Out of the five pedals in my guitarist's pedal board, 4 of them are mine. I haven't used them for almost 2 years now because he always has them "I need them" he says. All of the band's mics are mine, I bought and paid for all of our outboard PA gear, and I'm now currently paying for our new entire PA. Our old PA came to us from a grant from a local organization, sweet deal. My god you've detailed 98% of the bands I've been in and known players from....Except it's usually the singer who says my drummer, my guitarist, my band...(no offense there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 22, 2006 Members Share Posted July 22, 2006 Originally posted by glepko My god you've detailed 98% of the bands I've been in and known players from....Except it's usually the singer who says my drummer, my guitarist, my band...(no offense there) None taken. In no way shape or form do I claim to "own" the band, I just say "my" in reference to the band I'm in, I'd say "our singer" etc. but to me it sounds like I'm including the person I'm talking to in the band. In actuality I couldn't be happier with the band, sure I'd like the other members to make more monitary contributions but hell, we all get along great, are pretty decent musicians (I think, anyways), and generally all contribute to the songwriting and bring something to the table musically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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