Members Sirens35 Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Ok so we've had about 4 shows so far.. and I still think my vocals need tons and tons of work.. but Im so confused! First, I sound really good acoustic when we are jamming , or im introducing materia lto my bandmates, but on stage its totally differnet , A) I cant hear myself , so i tend to strain to try and hearmyself on stage b) its so loud! c) cant hear myself!!!!! Also, we tend to go from quiet/normal talking verses to loud/catchy/hooky choruses.. anyways.. what can I do to improve my live performance? Do yall (singers) have any type of pedals/equipment? I am basically showing up and playing on whatever the sound guy does.. i dont have a pa, no mic, no anything. im not making excuses.. i know i need work. but i wannt help! basically please help with any info on live vocals.. i dont even know where to begin searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sir riff a lot Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 to hear yourself in a live situation , you will either need foldback/monitor speakers that sit in front of you on the stage and direct noise back at you. or in ear monitors , which give you a mix of whatever you want to hear straight into your ears, they have the added advantage of making the rest of the band quiter also. I have just skimmed over this and I'm sure other members will comment also. let us know what you need explained or epanded on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 1) Get the band to reduce stage volume.2) Get the band to reduce stage volume.3) Get a foldback or IEM system. The IEMs will work best for a singer but they have requirements and a learning curve. Wedges work well but the stage volume will make them difficult to hear without feedback. The better the monitor system, the better the GBF. What does your system consist of? What mic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 21, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 If you're playing mostly venues that provide a PA, it should have monitors. If it doesn't, you need an IEM system so you can provide your own foldback. If it does, ask the person running sound to raise your voice in your monitor so you can hear yourself. Note that there are definite limits to how loud a floor wedge placed in front of you will get before feedback. An IEM can get as loud as you want with zero feedback, but be mindful of hearing damage. As a singer, IMO a minimum investment is in a mic..whatever you eventually feel you sound best with. I'd start with an SM-58. It's $100 everywhere, and will last forever and sounds good on most systems for most singers. If you move on from there, it's a great backup mic. Next I'd invest in a Shure PSM200 IEM system, with upgraded earbuds, something like the SCL-4. You can patch the small transmixer into your mic cable so the sound guy doesn't have to deal with it or you during the show. Cost: $600 plus whatever extra the earbuds might run if you upgrade. Get an extra mic cable so you can easily patch the system in. Mark it with your name to avoid load-out confusion at 2am over who owns what. Get a small kit bag to hold this stuff. It won't make you a better singer, but it will make you much easier to deal with, and you'll be much more relaxed knowing you can hear yourself. That makes for a better show for everyone. Any questions on any of this, just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fu2jobu Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 When I was younger and dumber every band I was in played god awful loud. I didn't realize I could actually sing in a live setting until years later. We were playing a larger venue and I talked the band into hiring a soundman. I also pestered the {censored} out of everyone to turn down, let the monitors do their job. It was definitely the best sounding performance we ever had (as told from countless people in attendance who had seen us before). The problem can start with the drums. If the drummer is loud the rest of the band usually follows. If you ever want to have a chance as sounding decent as a band you need to get the stage volume down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDoctorMo Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 The problem can start with the drums. If the drummer is loud the rest of the band usually follows. If you ever want to have a chance as sounding decent as a band you need to get the stage volume down. Exactly. Our drummer users an acoustic kit, so we have no choice but to play as loud as him. (We do not yet use IEMs.) Other than our vocal mics, his drum mics are the only other open mics on stage. Also, we are all ampless and run only through the monitors/FOH. My only suggestion is to get your monitor as loud as it takes so that you don't have to scream to hear yourself. I don't have the best voice, nor can it take much strain, but I have found that if I have my mic's level, and monitor level, high enough, I barely have to sing yet still have enough volume for a proper performance. The weird part is, between songs when talking to the crowd, my voice is quieter than when having a normal conversation. As said before, let the PA do the work for you. It's funny watching drummers beat the hell out of their skins just to be loud, even if they are mic'ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDoctorMo Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Get a small kit bag to hold this stuff. Every now and then, on 1saleaday.com, they have a deal where you can get some aluminum cases for cameras. I missed one opportunity to get them, but got them the next time they came around. "Aluminum Hard Case for Photo/Video Equipment Customizable for all your Equipment with High Density Cubed Foam Inserts & Dual Keypad Locks $10 + $5 S&H" 13" L X 10 1/4" W X 5 1/8" D I think they normally go for $50-100. They can carry several mics or a small practice mixer. If you subscribe to that site's feed, you might see that offer again. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Follow the good advice above, but I'm going to tell you an old trick to get you by when no monitors/IEM's are available. Just "cup" your hand slightly, with the heel of your hand near your mouth, and the fingertips over one ear. You'll be surprised how effective it can be. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Follow the good advice above, but I'm going to tell you an old trick to get you by when no monitors/IEM's are available. Just "cup" your hand slightly, with the heel of your hand near your mouth, and the fingertips over one ear. You'll be surprised how effective it can be.Bob Along this same line is the "finger in the ear" which doesn't look so great on stage, but it works. If any of the other solutions mentioned isn't feasible (perhaps due to cost), you can try a quality pair of musicians earplugs. You'll hear yourself great, but it makes interacting with everything else a little weird... and good mic technique is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 I've seen national acts using the "cupped hand" technique. Robin Gibb of the BeeGees is one example. Back in the day ('60's), I used to see local bar bands do it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 21, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Follow the good advice above, but I'm going to tell you an old trick to get you by when no monitors/IEM's are available. Just "cup" your hand slightly, with the heel of your hand near your mouth, and the fingertips over one ear. You'll be surprised how effective it can be. Bob I can't see anyone do this without being reminded of old Laugh-In episodes with Gary Owens deadpanning total nonsense. Good stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 I can't see anyone do this without being reminded of old Laugh-In episodes with Gary Owens deadpanning total nonsense. Good stuff... That was good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 I can't see anyone do this without being reminded of old Laugh-In episodes with Gary Owens deadpanning total nonsense. Good stuff... So true,,,,What a show!!!:lol: "Veeeeery Interestinggggg". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 21, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 That was good stuff. But only we gray-hairs got to see it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 I've seen national acts using the "cupped hand" technique. Robin Gibb of the BeeGees is one example. Back in the day ('60's), I used to see local bar bands do it all the time. It wasn't clear in my post, but the "finger in the ear" is the one that looks bad. The "cupped hand", not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RHA Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Sock it...to me?...Guess I'm a gray-hair too. Back to OP; go back and read the instructions about less stage volume from your bandmates. Of course monitors (wedges or IEM's) are essential, but until your band learns to keep the overall volume down, neither you nor your band will sound good. Its as simple as that, and the primary reason why most bands don't do well with live performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 It wasn't clear in my post, but the "finger in the ear" is the one that looks bad. The "cupped hand", not so much... Finger in the ear doesn't work so well at all. Sounds like you're singing underwater. Cupped hand lets you hear alll the resonance/timbre of your voice. It's important though, to get the heel of your hand/ wrist,,, near your mouth. The wrist/heel reflects the sound, and your cupped fingers merely provide a channel/conduit:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nathanlux Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Earplugs can help. In reality, most small clubs will have inferior sound systems and that's just something you have to deal with. If the monitors won't provide enough volume for you to hear yourself over a band (unless the band is insanely loud) it's the venue's fault. The idea of investing in you own PA gear, which you lug from gig to gig, is ridiculous. Most clubs have their own system and you can't just replace it with yours. About the drummer: if your drummer is too loud, your band is too quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Finger in the ear doesn't work so well at all. Sounds like you're singing underwater. Cupped hand lets you hear alll the resonance/timbre of your voice. It's important though, to get the heel of your hand/ wrist,,, near your mouth. The wrist/heel reflects the sound, and your cupped fingers merely provide a channel/conduit:thu: After some research (sitting here and testing for about 10 seconds), I have to concede that the "cupped hand" and "finger in the ear" produce totally different results. I guess the only similarity is that both methods involve putting your hand near your face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sorocknroll Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Ok so we've had about 4 shows so far.. and I still think my vocals need tons and tons of work.. but Im so confused! First, I sound really good acoustic when we are jamming , or im introducing materia lto my bandmates, but on stage its totally differnet , A) I cant hear myself , so i tend to strain to try and hearmyself on stage b) its so loud! c) cant hear myself!!!!! Also, we tend to go from quiet/normal talking verses to loud/catchy/hooky choruses.. anyways.. what can I do to improve my live performance? Do yall (singers) have any type of pedals/equipment? I am basically showing up and playing on whatever the sound guy does.. i dont have a pa, no mic, no anything. im not making excuses.. i know i need work. but i wannt help! basically please help with any info on live vocals.. i dont even know where to begin searching. If you can't hear yourself you need a good monitor and you need it turned up. It makes all the difference in the world. Some people suggest in-ear monitors so that you can control the levels yourself, but I found them very aggravating to use. If your sound guy doesn't have a monitor specifically designated for your vocals, then he sucks. That's elementary. That monitor needs to be exactly perfect for you. {censored} anyone else who thinks your mix is indulgent. If you can't hear yourself, the show will suck no matter how good a singer you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sorocknroll Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 It wasn't clear in my post, but the "finger in the ear" is the one that looks bad. The "cupped hand", not so much... I find that the cupping produces a truer sound as well. The finger-in-the-ear doesn't allow you to hear tone. Either way, this shouldn't be done indefinitely. A monitor is necessary asap, even if you have to buy your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members qcb79 Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 It's funny watching drummers beat the hell out of their skins just to be loud, even if they are mic'ed. In defense of drummers, I just recently played our first live show, charity gig in a pretty big auditorium, full pa and everything. Now I'm used to playing in rehearsal with everyones amps blaring at me but going from that environment to a low stage volume and getting everything through the monitor was a whole different experience. since none of us were used that that we just let the soundguy do his thing for our soundcheck and didnt speak up when we should have. So long story short showtime rolls around and I cant hear my kick or the bassist worth a damn so I find myself beating the hell out of my drums to compensate for lack of being able to hear what I'm playing. In the end I find out the bassist couldnt hear anything he was playing, I couldnt hear myself or him and really the only thing I was getting through my monitor was snare, little vox and some of the lead guitar. anyway, I can understand now how some drummers will try to compensate for not being able to hear whats going on, of course others will beat the hell out of the kit no matter what. it was a good learning experience for a new band and in the end what came out of the FOH didnt sound nearly as bad as we thought it did from stage. for the OP as far as Vox- you have got to hear yourself, when we very first started and my wife didnt have a monitor for her vox, they sounded horrible and I know she has a good voice so I couldnt figure out why she sounded so bad. finally figured out she couldnt her herself and would strain her voice trying to sing louder to compensate for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sirens35 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 thanks for the info.. i really need to start paying attention during soundcheck.. whats yalls favorite method to make sure the vox/monitors are just right during souncheck? maybe get everyone playing at the same time and then do the "check check check" ? also if anyone has a video of the "cup the mouth" thing id appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sorocknroll Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 thanks for the info.. i really need to start paying attention during soundcheck.. whats yalls favorite method to make sure the vox/monitors are just right during souncheck? maybe get everyone playing at the same time and then do the "check check check" ?also if anyone has a video of the "cup the mouth" thing id appreciate it. It needs to be set to your own ear. Check check check for tone, but then get everyone playing and run through a song or two to make sure you can still hear yourself well with the full band going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fu2jobu Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Play an actual song(s) at show level. Have the soundguy and/or band adjust accordingly. If you need to stop the band and then restart then do that. what could be better than tweaking to show conditons? Don't be afraid to put some real effort into the soundcheck and don't be afraid to tell your band to turn the hell down. The band as a whole will sound better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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