Somewhat OT: van vs pickup truck?

[Miko Man]

I'm at the point where I need to get another vehicle to haul my gear. My current vehicle won't tow a trailer, so just getting a trailer isn't feasible at this point. Do you have an opinion about whether a full-sized van or a pickup truck with a suitable topper is the preferred way to go? I'll be buying used.

 

Besides regular sound gear, I have some bulky things, such as a standing height lectern. I don't have any truss (yet) to haul, so I don't need to go to a box van. Pickup trucks are far more commonly available around here than "tradesman" type cargo vans. I think a cargo-type van would make more sense than a passenger van; fewer windows to see in or to break out. I don't expect that I would consider a crew cab pickup, since that robs too much bed space. I don't think that I need a 4x4 or AWD, despite living in Montana, although I could be (very) wrong on that point.

 

Any suggestions or opinions? I'll be keeping my other vehicle, BTW. Mark C.

[mrcpro]

I have both an F250 and a Nissan Quest. If I can get it all in the Quest, it's much easier to load in and out of because it's so much lower to the ground.

 

With the van I also don't have to stoop as much either (if the canopy is on the 250), or tarp the load (if it's not).

 

To be honest, I haven't used the 250 to haul music gear in years. The last time I used it was because it hauls more, and I needed literally everything for an outdoor rodeo dance.

[Vinny D]

I just went through this exact ordeal a few months ago...

First let me say that I am a truck guy, I like the looks better and they are just more comfortable to me.

 

I first looked new.....that didn't last to long as the pricing is just insane.

Especially for what I was looking for which of course NO dealer had in stock so it would have been a special order.

 

For a van, I wanted strictly a cargo van with NO windows on the sides or rear doors...I don't want anyone seeing inside.

Then I would need a cargo divider from front/back.

Couldn't afford a new one as they were all coming in around $27k.

Couldn't find a used one that I was willing to take a chance on as they were all high mileage.

My main issue with a cargo van is that there are to many points of entry to gain access to my equipment inside.

This is not an issue for some. but for me it's a big concern and one I am just not comfortable with.

Granted the load height is lower which is nice...but it's really not a big deal for me.

 

I ended up with getting another pickup and putting a utility cap on it (like I already had).

Still, this is not an easy task either!

Finding a 2-wheel drive, regular cab, 8' bed pickup these days is like finding a needle in a haystack!

Everyone wants 4-wheel drive and quad cabs, the problem is the bed is not big enough to fit all my gear and the truck height is way to high.

Anyway, I searched for a while and found a used 2011 pickup that only had 11k miles on it.

Ordered a custom utility cap with dual doors on the back and the tallest height available. Plus I had (4) lights installed inside the cab so I can see what I am doing at night.

 

The main thing I like is that I can leave the truck backed up to my house so there is no access to the back......still can't stop someone from stealing the whole truck, but it stops the window shopping theif.

 

 

 

Truck was only $16k (fully loaded by the way) and the cap was another $2k.

[W. M. Hellinger]

I'll suggest that much depends on:

 

1) The gear you'll likely be hauling around, and:

2) How much gear hauling driving you're figuring on doing and what road conditions you're likely to encounter, and:

3) How many if any passengers you're fixing to haul with you, and:

4) Dual purposes if any of the gear hauling vehicle, including the possible necessity of unloading the gear everytime the vehicle is used for another purpose, and:

5) Tax deduction, insurance, and possible DOT requirements, and:

6) Finances... considering purchase price vs. operating costs over the life expectancy of the vehicle.

[Axisplayer]

Mark, there you go again, introducing reality into a perfectly good discussion.

[Drummer44]

An extended length (350/3500) van will have more interior (area) space especially in length and height dimensions, lower load height, higher "almost standing" room, and greater floor-to-ceiling area.

 

Most full-size pick-ups have at max an 8' box, width affected by the wheel wells, deck-to-ground lengths is usually higher, and a normal cab height topper doesn't give you as much up-and-down room. (Of sourse there are taller toppers.)

 

There are some stock AWD full-size vans, but I think you don't see them on the used market often. AWD may or may not arise load height. 4WD usually does. Chains and an extra set of snow tires can be a pain to store (tires) and install (chains), but they usually work pretty well and are relatively inexpensive in the grand scheme of things.

 

-D44

[Miko Man]

Thanks to all who commented so far. I'm trying to balance cost, reliabilty, professional appearance, and ease of use. The double door, no tailgate topper looks very nice, Vinny. Mark C.

[Vinny D]

The utility cap on my truck was also ordered double wall (there is a inner metal liner, sides, roof & doors).

I would HIGHLY suggest if you go truck/cap route to look into this.

Reason being, with the double walls should your equipment get banged into the cap (load shift, or you moving it) the dents are not visible on the outside!

If you look at many vans or trucks with caps on them (aluminum) you will notice dents all over the sides (looks like crap).

So even if you go the van route there are mfg's that sell interior shell liners for protection (Adrian Steel makes them for every model van).

Well worth the money if you want to keep the outer appearance looking good.

[gonzobassman]

I have used both,and all I can say is that my girlfriend and I had my P.A.,and bass rig tore down,and loaded (in a van),before the drummer got his 4-piece set loaded.We weren't really in a huge hurry,just worked at a medium clip till we were done.P.A. consists of dual 18 subs(2),single 15 tops(2) 15"monitor wedges(4),cableing,and main rack(a 200 pound monster).No way we could have done that in a pick up truck.With a van,and a little forethought,everything loads from outside the vehicle(I am always in a standing position).With a pickup truck and a topper ,you are always squatting,or on your knees trying to lift weight that is prohibitive to good back health!!! I will never use anything but a van for this type of work. Just my opinion.

[Reson8tor]

I would go with a van over a pickup (I've used both, over the years). Loading and unloading the forward 4 feet of an 8 foot pickup bed is a pain, even if you use a double door topper like the one in the photo above. If you do go with a pickup, I'd strongly recommend that type of topper. Loading over a tailgate sucks.

 

I think the one big advantage with a pickup is that it's much easier to find one with 4WD compared to vans, and if it were me, I'd sure want 4WD in Montana.

 

The problem with a van, on the other hand, is that they don't make as many good mid-sized models as they used to. So you may be stuck with something bigger than you need, unless you really do need the capacity of a full-sized van.

 

A friend of mine drives a Chevy Astro, which is the perfect size and capacity for smaller bands, and it's also an AWD model which helps for winter driving. They stopped making these in 2005, I think, but if you can find one in good condition, it might be a good alternative to a full-size van. Easier to park, a little easier on gas mileage.

[Miko Man]

Thanks for the additional input, guys. I'm leaning towards a van, mostly because of the ease of loading. I think that for my application, a traditional body on frame construction is my best bet. The Astro van is an option (Mark H. has praised his), but it is harder to find those in a cargo configuration around here. I don't think that adapting a passenger van is a good option for a variety of reasons. I don't expect that I will need room for more than one other person. Second, windows (even darkly tinted) seem like a bad idea from a security standpoint. (Not that I live in a high crime area; but why tempt folks?)

 

Anybody else want to weigh in on the topic? Mark C.

[KellyMainEvent]

i got a 2007 Chevy Express with 1,800 miles on it in 2008 for $18k, I LOVE it

[gonzobassman]

There is a fleet van for sale here that I wish I could get.Its a 97 with 135000 miles on it. Chevy with the 350,3/4 ton suspension.Its silver colored with one of those real nice ladder racks on top.The guy has 3495 on it. If he would take 2000,i would buy it.He says not yet,but if it don't move in the next couple of weeks,he'll be calling me back! In the meantime I'll just drive my unassuming 1985 Dodge with the slant six motor,and 1,000,000 miles!!! Lol

[nchangin]

 

There is a fleet van for sale here that I wish I could get.Its a 97 with 135000 miles on it. Chevy with the 350,3/4 ton suspension.Its silver colored with one of those real nice ladder racks on top.The guy has 3495 on it. If he would take 2000,i would buy it.He says not yet,but if it don't move in the next couple of weeks,he'll be calling me back! In the meantime I'll just drive my unassuming 1985 Dodge with the slant six motor,and 1,000,000 miles!!! Lol

 

 

My college car was a 78 Volare made by Plymouth, had a super slant 6 (yes a 2 barrel carb!!!), it's started knocking so I dumped in some SAE 90, ran good as new for 2 more years!

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

The Astro van is an option (Mark H. has praised his), but it is harder to find those in a cargo configuration around here. I don't think that adapting a passenger van is a good option for a variety of reasons. I don't expect that I will need room for more than one other person. Second, windows (even darkly tinted) seem like a bad idea from a security standpoint. (Not that I live in a high crime area; but why tempt folks?)

 

Yes, I believe based on my experience that cargo vans in servicable condition are generally more expensive and rarer than passenger vans... especially AWD Astro/Safari vans.

 

I've purchased my most recent 2 Astrovans from this eBay seller... both vans were ex govt. fleet vehicles with relatively low miles and solid mantainance records, absolutely no rust, and very reasonable prices:

 

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/oregonmotors2000/m.html?hash=item3a7357e655&item=251043243605&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&_trksid=p4340.l2562

 

One thing to possibly consider would be a conversion van like this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Astro-ASTRO-LE-CHEVROLET-ASTRO-CONVERSION-VAN-LE-EDITION-TV-TAPE-COLD-A-C-REAR-BENCH-NO-/150799788142?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item231c5e286e

 

And then gut the inside. From the outside it still looks like a conversion van... generally with heavily tinted windows... probably about as unassuming as-to the cargo contents as it gets. A bonus is the extra headroom. And oftentimes these conversion vans go for dirt cheap and are generally in better than average condition as far as milage vs. age goes.

[fishmanrod]

So I'm going to totally toss a wrench into all this.

If you are getting a new (to you) vehicle, then I suggest you get one that can haul a trailer.

My main reason is if this vehicle is mostly for hauling music gear, it's one more large expense and unless you are working with it every day, not a very sensible one. You are only going to start it once or twice a week, or maybe not move it for weeks. This is especially the case with a cargo van. Not exactly the drive around town take momma on a date vehicle.

The trailer has all the advantages of a pickup, and of a van, and you don't EVER have to unload it to use the vehicle for something else. Just unhook and go.

I bought a brand new trailer for $2500, 5 x 8, and it fits my full pa (yorkville 55's and LS 700's, plus 4 powered monitors, a rack, my A and H GL2400 in case, snake in case, two rolling tool boxes full of cables, and 8 LED par cans pre mounted on T bars, plus a big old golf bag full of mic stands.

I used to load all this in my minivan, and then have to unload it every time I needed the vehicle the next day. Now I just drop the trailer, backed against the wall of my garage. If you are really concerned about theft, buy a wheel lock.

I really think buying a vehicle for occasional use is not ideal. Trade in whatever you have for a family vehicle and purchase something that will do that job well, but just happens to haul a trailer. Your total expense for music stuff will be lower, and you can upgrade your every day vehicle.

Unless your current vehicle is a Porche.......... then I have no idea what to do!

Cheers! Rod

[Bobby1Note]

Personally, I think a trailer is the way to go. Something like a 5'x8' , or a 6'x10', with a ramp door. Mind you, your daily driver has to be up to the task of hauling it. (and stopping it)

 

So much depends on how much gear you want to haul around,,,,how heavy the gear is (large subs/ amp-racks) how you wanna store that gear (load/unload),,, how much parking and storage-space you have,,, and local weather. (hot summers/cold winters). Local gas prices may also have an impact. Here in Quebec, regular unleaded sells for roughly $1.45/litre (roughly $6./gal.

 

I bought a van last year. It sat in the driveway, depreciating and unused, so I got rid of it. I figured for those rare occasions when I'd need to haul a lot of gear to a gig, it would be cheaper and more practical, to rent a van for the day. (no depreciation, no plates to renew, no insurance, no parking space required)

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Personally, I think a trailer is the way to go. Something like a 5'x8' , or a 6'x10', with a ramp door. Mind you, your daily driver has to be up to the task of hauling it. (and stopping it)

 

I agree; however, there is one possible caveat to this being possibly claiming business transportation expenses as a business deduction.

 

I

[Reson8tor]

A trailer is a good option, especially if gear safety and climate allow keeping the gear in the trailer. Not having to unload when you get home later at night is a major plus.

 

One problem I've run into in the past with trailers though, is that you need a fairly hefty vehicle to tow a decent-sized trailer. Especially if you're in a hilly area. By the time you get something with enough towing capacity, the tow vehicle itself might serve just as well to haul the gear.

 

It also depends on the type of venues and available parking. Some of the places I play, we'd have to double-park to offload at the venue with a trailer, then drive several blocks away (or more) to find a parking spot. With a van or pickup, you can just park right at the venue, space permitting. I actually have a double motorcycle trailer (5x8, I think?) that I've used a few time for gigs, but these days we don't haul that much stuff, and trying to find a parking spot at the venue was just too big a pain. So the trailer sits, as yard storage. I've just intentionally limited the gear to what will fit in a small SUV for the majority of gigs, and I'll rent a full-size van if we need more room.

[tim_7string]

I've been in bands using retired school buses and a partition (equipment in back, seating in front), trucks, sedans hauling trailers made out of pickup beds, big trucks with big horse trailers, SUVs, BIG SUVs (suburbans), 15 passenger vans and my own current minivan (1994 Plymouth Town and Country). Hauling that pickup bed trailer ruined the transmission on my sedan, so I'll never do that again. I'd only use a trailer with a big truck that can handle it.

 

Due to the cost of gas these days, I opted to go for PA equipment that could broke down easily and could be stacked and shifted easily (versatility). The older SUV was able to hold a good amount, but it was essentially like loading up a pickup (non-hatchback). It was a real hassle. Now that I have the T&C van, I love the hatchback because it's lower to the ground and far easier to load stuff in and out.

 

I do, however, make it a point to always take out my PA equipment after bringing it home and I always have to load it up again before each gig. I'm just not very trusting of my neighborhood, especially since someone stole my outside extension cord for my block heater after a few days of warm weather (no more snow) back in March.

[nchangin]

 

I agree; however, there is one possible caveat to this being possibly claiming business transportation expenses as a business deduction.   I

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I asked this question to my tax man here was his response:   Dear Tax man: Ok I don

[Miko Man]

Good discussion points being made; thank you. I had not thought to do a cost analysis of ownership vs. rental costs to determine the number of days and miles per year at which ownership is more a cost effective use of my limited capital.

 

I think that if/when I buy a gear hauler I will be sure to get something that is adequate to tow a single axle trailer, although not necessarily powerful enough to tow a fully loaded trailer AND a fully loaded tow vehicle. Mark C.

[nchangin]

 

Did you ask the question concerning a dual use, personal and business, vehicle, and exactly what documentation requirements there are concerning the claimed business milage? This whole affair could get fairly messy if you itemize the operating costs, broke out to the difference of operating costs personal vs. business since I'd expect the operating costs to be considerably higher pulling a heavily laden trailer vs. buzzing around town sans trailer attending to personal affairs. And I agree that the standard mileage rate is simpler and easier, and probably begs less scruteny by the tax man... but on a late model thirsty vehicle, that standard deduction rate could be less than 1/2 the actual operating expense. And there's likely an insurance question concerning business vs. personal use of a vehicle. I'd suspect the insurance company will rate the entire operation of the vehicle at a business rate... and if the vehicle is covered under a strictly personal policy, I'd suspect the vehicle would not be covered for business usage... and if it's not covered for business usage, that could possibly add a question of uncertainty if the claimed business deduction is audited by the tax man. I guess what I'm getting at is that IME, dual use vehicles (personal and business) rarely do either well... and if you're in a business that requires a suitable business vehicle, then a dedicated business vehicle is simplier, easier, and likely more cost effective in the long run.

 

 

I keep it simple, I spent x amount on x for x on x date, Mr. tax man please submit. Then he says well gosh your expenses outweigh your income, then I'm like don't most business models lose money the first couple years (young business)? Yes but based on these #'s you may be audited. You just can't win. I look at it this way until I'm over a substantial amount of income I doubt the IRS is going to spend the time and money on an audit. My tax guy did state to keep a log of mileage as I am in this boat as well (use personal vehicle for business)

[Miko Man]

I've decided that for the time being that I will not buy another vehicle for hauling gear. If I need to "haul it all", I'll rent an appropriately sized van. It is not a good use of funds to buy at this time. Thanks for everybody's input. Mark C.