Members Tullsterx Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 My stage amp consists of a Technical Pro SLIMPRO3000, 300W per channel @ 8 Ohms, and two passive Wharfedale Titan 8s. And I'm regularly overdriving it into the red. . . what do I really need to change? I guess I need more power? Or would a change in speakers make a difference? Or should I elevate the speaker instead of angling them up from the floor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hate to tell you this, but you are the owner of one of the most optimistically rated amps that I have ever seen. In fact, I suspect that the race to the bottom may indeed have found a winner. This coupled with poor speakers for the job (inefficient, and low (real) power handling) means that your system is inadequate for what you hope to achieve. Also, what are you using for a preamp? The specs for the amp are so incomplete that there's no way to know what the input sensitivity is.Where are you located? Maybe there are other options that you can try out before you buy??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members happwith12strin Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 The problem may not be in the speakers or amp. You may need to make gain adjustments on other rack gear or on the mixer. Maybe a wireless mic or mic preamp. It is possible you need to use a DI box to get a clean, strong signal to the input of the mixer. The problem with keyboards is the samples put in by the mfg were proably not recorded with the same levels. There is no universial standard for volume levels on individual keyboard patches.Some patches are louder than others. Some patches have square waveforms which can clip easier. I hope you have some sort of limiter for the keyboard. If you are using the wharfedales to get sound out to the audience, it helps a lot to elevate them. If they are your monitors, I would leave them on the floor. If possible cut the very lowest bass sounds out for more volume. sPECS WHARFEDALE: MODEL TITAN 8 PASSIVE GENERAL INFO System type Two way passive speaker system Frequency response +/- 3db 70Hz-20kHz Sensitivity (db 1w@1m) 96dB SPL System impedance 8 ohms Maximum SPL Peak dB 124dB SPL Peak POWER HANDLING (Watts) Continuous RMS 150W Program 300W Peak 600W LF DRIVER Lf driver size mm / inches 205mm / 8 ", Die-cast aluminium frame Lf voice coil size 38.86mm / 1.53 " HF SECTION Hf voice coil size 30mm / 1.2 " Hf type Compression Driver Hf diaphragm material Cloth Horn dispersion (H x V) 90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members happwith12strin Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 Some other things to check: Do you have a pad control depressed on the mixer? Is there a low/high gain switch on the back of any of your equipment? Is there a fader down on the mixer? Yes, you might need better gear but I would look at all the settings on each piece of gear and try an Art Tube MP as a last ditch effort before looking at new gear. Better gear is always better, but sometimes you have to make do with what you have until you get more money. Take a look at the manuals for each piece of gear you have and reread the setup sections. Good luck !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 The gear is not suitable for the intended needs IMO, almost certainly not what you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 I have to second Andy's opinion, the gear is just not suitable for the job. I'd start with replacing the power amp. Soon after I'd replace the speakers. But why, a decent pair of active speakers would do the job, how about the titan 12's? Dare I say behringer B212D's? It's your gear and your choice, just offering my advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 None of the regulars here have suggested this. Please re-read my response in post #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tullsterx Posted June 12, 2013 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 agedhorse wrote: None of the regulars here have suggested this. Please re-read my response in post #2. So, you're saying that is just not worth trying?And the "regulars" advice on upgrading is just fine. But, I mainly want to keep things small and light. And overall I'm happy with my setup, it's just that our stage volume is pretty loud and sometimes I go into the red. But, it's not a terrible situation, just not ideal.So, name the single rack-space power amp that would be a lot better than what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members happwith12strin Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 If you sing and also do keyboards, you should consider using two channels of a mixer. One channel for vocals and one for the keyboards. The channel settings will be different. Are your vocals going into the red or the keys? The Art MP is mentioned because its cheap and you can use if like a DI box to get a clean signal thru long cable runs. Not the greatest preamp, but cheap, its about the quality range of the speakers, maybe less. Will warm up the keys maybe 5-8%. You might try a preamp before the mixer.The amp is your weakest link. 2U amps are the most common. I would look for a used Crown XLS, maybe the new lightweight ones, if you decide to replace the power amp. Guitar center gives a guarantee on used gear. I would consider a speaker bigger than 8", maybe 12" Powered studio 8" monitors..... Good ones wiil sound better at higher volume. Lightweight, but quality counts a lot here if you want volume. Better JBL speakers are hard to beat. But even with good powered 8" monitors, with a large band, you may still lose in a volume battle. Watch out for hearing loss with the keyboards. Try Monthlymixcd's post #12 on other things to try. Take a look at Guitar center used and look for a used Crown XLS 202, about $99, ~30lbs, keep your current speakers. Sound would be much much clearer. More headroom. Think Crown, JBL ..IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 You might want to highly consider dumping that rig you have and getting a high quality keyboard amplifier.If you insist on having a setup similar to the one you have then dump the loudspeakers, and that power amp and get yourself a high quality pair of self powered loudspeakers like QSC, EV, or JBL.Then you would run out of your pre signal straight into the powered loudspeakers.The weak link in your setup is the power amp, and the loudspeakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 Powered studio monitors are another poor (and wrong) tool for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monthlymixcd Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 Pro Sound Guy wrote: You might want to highly consider dumping that rig you have and getting a high quality keyboard amplifier. FWIW - Our keyboard player has a nice Roland KC350 combo amp (Hellishly loud with a significant tilt-back angle to the speaker BTW) he plug the keys into a direct box split to the FOH snake and one channel of the Roland and we send him his monitor mix (his vocal mic, etc.) back into another channel that he can mix with the keys at the amp. For gigs where stage volume must be kept lower, he plugs in a set of nice earbuds to that amp for monitoring. YMMV That amp is fairly heavy, but not much worse than all of your current gear combined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tullsterx Posted June 12, 2013 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 agedhorse wrote: Powered studio monitors are another poor (and wrong) tool for the job. Agreed. Did anyone suggest that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members happwith12strin Posted June 12, 2013 Members Share Posted June 12, 2013 Last time I saw studio monitors used sucessfully was with a group of 6 Jazz studio cats, playing beach front in San Diego . Audience close by ~ 15-25 ft. Monitors slightly elevated . low stage volume.They were playing quiet jazz.Seemed to work for them. Said they didnt have real monitors, but the studio monitors were what they had to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 13, 2013 Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's almost impossible to overdrive the inputs of a power amp. I suspect that he is overdriving the outputs, and it's for the reasons I mentioned previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tullsterx Posted June 18, 2013 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just ordered 2 RCF Art 310a's from Mike Pyle! Thanks everyone for their input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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