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  • #31






    Quote Originally Posted by jpleong
    View Post

    I use extensions with my earbuds all the time. The way I get around this is two-fold:



    1) The earbuds cables have an adjustable (usually sliding) split point that I tape in-place to the point where the intersection of the Y is touching my skull. This equalizes the "pull" of the cable between the two earpieces.



    2) I loop the extension through my belt loop and then connect it to the earbuds jack. This places the strain of the extension on my pants instead of my ears. This doesn't work when I wear my pajamas, though... I have recently switched to using lavalier microphone clips at the extension-barrel (female) end to make my life a little less loopy...




    Great tips, JP! I like #2, as it's similar to how guitarists loop their cord through the strap to provide the same sort of strain relief. Now, we just have to work out a "Pajama Solution"!



    Although this discussion of earbuds vs. heaphones may seem like a bit of a sidebar, it's worth exploring, as the JamHub assumes an all-phone/bud environment. As far as rejecting the acoustic sound in the room (acoustic drums, vocals, acoustic guitars), I think closed-back circumaural cans still have the edge.



    Now, what would really free the musicians up from being tethered to the JamHub is wireless headphones. But I don't know anyone who's using those (yet) for serious music applications.
    Jon Chappell
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
    Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

    Comment


    • #32






      Quote Originally Posted by jpleong
      View Post

      This looks like a great review.



      For all those who don't understand the big deal about it, I will say that it is indeed possible to replicate most of what the Jamhub does, you just need a lot more money than the price of admission for this unit. I think the next least expensive way of having this much control for this many performers is to use a digital mixer. The cheapest one with this many stereo outs is probably the MOTU 896mk3. Plus you have to add a headphone amp with individual inputs. That's a total cost of $1200 if you can find everything for cheap.



      JP




      ... or forego the headphone amp get wireless IEM systems for each band member (at even greater expense).



      Another option would be to get a Rolls PM351 personal monitoring system for each member, along with a Rolls PS16 personal monitor amp...

      http://www.ccisolutions.com/StoreFro...PM3514MIX.prod



      The Rolls units allow you to feed in a general mix, plus your vocals and instrument, each with their own level control to handle the "more me" issue. You would still need a mixer however with enough channels to handle each instrument and mic so you can send a general "band mix" back to the PS16, plus it would require quite a few more cables that what is needed to do the same thing as the JamHub. The upside is that it could also suffice as a stage monitoring system as well.



      I still think however that the JamHub looks like the best bet for doing what it was designed for... silent group rehearsal/recording.

      Comment


      • #33






        Quote Originally Posted by Chumly
        View Post

        I've only done this with a duo ...




        This makes great sense to me now. I can see why the JamHub is not a big deal in your eyes. Using a conventional mixer and headphone amp is totally do-able with a duo. However, if you were to add one or two more players things would get very expensive with your solution, and not very portable. Trust me, I've tried it ... that's how I made the first "proof of concept" JamHub.



        It took about $700 in mixers, cables, power strips, etc. to make a crude JamHub concept for a 4 piece band, and that took about 30 minutes to setup. Eventually I mounted it all to a 2-foot by 4-foot board to make it "portable". It had a lot less capability than the BedRoom model and cost a lot more. This confirmed that there was an opportunity to invent something knew and the "silent rehearsal studio" concept was in full gear.



        I hope that helps,

        Steve
        www.JamHub.com

        Comment


        • #34






          Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
          View Post

          I received a couple of PM's questioning the shape of the JamHub. Specifically, "Why is it curved like a watermelon slice?"



          Well, the reason it looks more like a slice of watermelon than a Sicilian pizza (that's what they call the rectangular version of pizza in the northeastern U.S., anyway) is because this angles the sections out in a fan shape. Instead of a straight line that favors only head on, perpendicular viewing, the fan shape (out to about 160 degrees, or not quite an entire semi-circle) makes line-of-sight viewing more favorable for musicians standing in a rehearsal space.



          In fact, the further out you stand from the unit, the more space you have between you and other musicians while maintaining the optimum, perpendicular view to your particular section. The more musicians you have, the further out you'll need to stand (unless you like rubbing shoulders and getting smacked in the face with the bass player's headstock).



          For example, look at points A and B, which could be two musicians standing close to the unit. Then look at point C and D, which would be the same two musicians maintaining their straight-on view, but further back, presumably to accommodate another musician in between. Obviously, the distance between C and D is much greater than between A and B, and this equates to how far apart the two musicians are from each other while keeping the (optimum) viewing angle constant. Certainly there's a geometric term for this principle, and I bet Steve knows it!




          I want to add to Jon's post some additional information about the JamHubs unique shape ...



          When we were developing the product it seemed "logical" to make a device that was a perfect disc or a perfect rectangle but as we tested these shapes it became clear that they were not helping the musicians, in fact they were making things more difficult.



          First, the rectangular JamHub:



          When testing a JamHub that is rectangular you essentially create a "forest of knobs" even for the 5-player BedRoom model -- that model has about 50 knobs on it, GreenRoom/TourBus has about 85 knobs on it. When you put that many knobs in nice rows and columns it's very difficult to make quick, fine adjustments on the fly. How we test it was by having people look at the unit and then look down at their hands (like when playing an instrument) then look back up at the JamHub and make a quick adjustment to someone else's section, mimicking what would really happen during a jam. Watching the musicians struggle to find their mix controls was alarming. They would often go more than two bars of music before making a move and then half the time turn the wrong knob. So, the rectangular shape was out.



          Second, the disc shaped JamHub:



          When testing this JamHub concept we just made a disc. With the disc we saw a great improvement on the accuracy of changes, once musicians found their section, they made the right adjustments and they made them fairly quickly. BUT, again, it was surprising to see how long it took musicians to find their section once we asked them to look down at their instruments and then back up at the unit.



          The final JamHub shape:



          The final shape, which is patented, has a unique design to serve a unique function. You see, once we added that flat side to the unit, people all of a sudden had a "north/south" or a "12 o'clock/6 o'clock" orientation to the device. They could look down, look away, even get spun around, and as soon as they looked up at the device they knew exactly where their section was relative to the flat side and could make very fast, minor adjustments and not miss a lot of the music making.



          That simple change made all the difference in the world in making the JamHub line easier to use. And when you're mid-jam and you want to make a quick change, you'll appreciate the simplicity of the design ... as will your band-mates even if they are unaware of why the flat side is there.



          I hope that helps,

          Steve



          PS Jon, I think the geeky term you're looking for is "divergent angles" or "radial" design.
          www.JamHub.com

          Comment


          • #35






            Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
            View Post

            Here's the problem with earbuds and extension cables, which I discovered last night while trying to use this system: The extension cable tugs directly on your ears, unless you create an elaborate support system for the cable so that it doesn't hang freely from the JamHub to your ears. Circumaural headphones (the over-ear kind) distribute the weight between the headband and the entire circumference of the large ear cups; nothing pulls directly on the ear opening, and you don't even notice the cable.



            I like earbuds and use them often (more than headphones). But using the JamHub seems to be a good case for using cans.




            What I do is loop the extension cable around/over the mic stand so that most of the weight from the cable is on the mic stand and then a small loop hangs below the guitar neck.



            Steve
            www.JamHub.com

            Comment


            • #36






              Quote Originally Posted by Jon Chappell
              View Post



              Now, what would really free the musicians up from being tethered to the JamHub is wireless headphones. But I don't know anyone who's using those (yet) for serious music applications.




              The only drag with wireless IMO is batteries. I just can't get over stressing about batteries or the jam chasing due to batteries. That's why I still use cables when I play live. Plus the stages we play on don't excactly allow for a lot of mobility.



              Steve
              www.JamHub.com

              Comment


              • #37
                Have you guys seen this? http://www.jumpaudio.net/



                It's another little start-up company with a great IEM/personal monitoring concept going that can compliment the Jamhub. The only difficulty interfacing with the Jamhub I can imagine is the need to have a "stereo" instrument input (their instrument cables are mono).



                JamHubSteve -I like your little Rehearsal Studio Youtube ad, it gets the point across really effectively. Pass my "marketing kudos" along to whomever thought up that little one...



                JP

                Comment


                • #38






                  Quote Originally Posted by jpleong
                  View Post

                  The only difficulty interfacing with the Jamhub I can imagine is the need to have a "stereo" instrument input (their instrument cables are mono).




                  It's not really a difficulty, as the JamHub includes in the box a mono-to-stereo adapter. If you need more than one, you can buy them at RadioShack or your local music store, cheap. JamHub requires a stereo in, even when most instruments' outputs are mono. They had to choose one, and in JH's defense, they made the right choice. You're better off connecting from the stereo headphone jack of your amp (because it cuts out the speaker) or a stereo or headphone out from a multi-effects, because it preserves the stereo environment. For direct-inputted electric basses and acoustic-electric guitars, you need the adapter.








                  JamHubSteve -I like your little Rehearsal Studio Youtube ad, it gets the point across really effectively. Pass my "marketing kudos" along to whomever thought up that little one...



                  I'm re-posting the YT link that JP refers to, as it really does say in 30 seconds what the unit is all about. All a bystander hears is the mosquito-like string-buzzing of the electric guitars and the raindrop taps of the electronic drummer.



                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oykGBiowyAQ



                  You can't make a singer sing silently, but a lone vocalist has probably the least disturbing/annoying quality to outsiders, considering all the other choices. Plus, vocalists don't have to project full voice, because they're aided by microphone levels. Turning up the trim helps in "saving the voice," too, allowing them to rehearse longer without blowing out their pipes.
                  Jon Chappell
                  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                  Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    In the past week, I've used the JamHub in a couple of settings. Here is the photo of an original four-piece rock band using the JamHub. This is a local band consisting of two guitars, bass, and drums. The three guitarists also sing, so there were six inputs total. The only thing not ideal for this JamHub test is that the drummer plays acoustically. But for this rehearsal (in a small, 12x12 room), he agreed to use just his snare and hi-hat, and to play quietly. My role was to just assist with the JamHub and only when asked. Otherwise, the band did everything.





                    An original four-piece rock band using the JamHub. The band consists of two guitars, electric bass, and drums. All three guitarists sing.



                    Since there were four players, the naturally set up facing each other at "compass points" of N, E, S, and West. This put the lead guitar and bass at the 1 and 6 positions, the rhythm guitarist/lead singer at the 3/4 position, and the drummer at the R (rear) position. Since the drummer used a remote, it didn't matter that the onboard R controls were upside down relative to his "behind the JamHub" position.



                    The first thing we all noticed is that you need to put the JamHub on something to bring it to a comfortable operating height. We used a music stand, but that's not the most stable thing, as the flat part rotates too easily. I wished the JamHub had a threaded socket built into its underside, or had some sort of optional bracket system for affixing the unit to a mic stand.



                    I was surprised at how quickly the musicians adjusted. It was also pretty clear who had mixer experience and who did not. One member kept saying, "X, your guitar is too loud," not understanding that the level was completely under his control. Where there were balance problems, the band worked together, helping each other. Once the music started, everyone reached up and tweaked their own sound as they played. By the end of the first song, no one was tweaking; everyone was satisfied with the balance.



                    [NOTE: I will expand on this post -- including the reactions of the musicians using the JamHub -- when the new HC Forum launches in a few days. -JC]
                    Jon Chappell
                    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                    Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Because HC is transitioning from the old platform to the new, any new posts made from now until we launch the new site (by about January 4) will not carry over. Please read the full announcement at the top of the Pro Reviews Forum page.
                      Jon Chappell
                      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                      Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                      Comment


                      • #41






                        Quote Originally Posted by jpleong
                        View Post

                        Have you guys seen this? http://www.jumpaudio.net/



                        It's another little start-up company with a great IEM/personal monitoring concept going that can compliment the Jamhub. The only difficulty interfacing with the Jamhub I can imagine is the need to have a "stereo" instrument input (their instrument cables are mono).



                        JamHubSteve -I like your little Rehearsal Studio Youtube ad, it gets the point across really effectively. Pass my "marketing kudos" along to whomever thought up that little one...



                        JP




                        Thanks for the kind words JP about the video. I'm not sure who deserves the "marketing kudos" for the video idea, I'm pretty sure it was a team collaboration of some sort.



                        I think the jump audio device would work fine with a JamHub because the instrument would ultimately be plugged into a modeling device which would then have a stereo out to connect to the JamHub's stereo instrument input.



                        Steve
                        www.JamHub.com

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          So that we don't lose any more comments, I'm closing this thread until the new HC 2.0 site goes live (sometime during the week of 1/4/10). Thank you for your patience and see you on 2.0!



                          [Edit:] We're postponing the launch of 2.0 for a few days, so I'm reopening this thread. Be aware that comments will not carry over, but I'll be copying and pasting comments with attribution until the new site launches. Thanks, Jon.
                          Jon Chappell
                          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                          Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Hey Jon, is there a new ETA. I have a few posts that I'd like to make but I'd rather wait until the 2.0 version is up so you don't have to re-post.
                            www.JamHub.com

                            Comment


                            • #44






                              Quote Originally Posted by JamHubSteve
                              View Post

                              Hey Jon, is there a new ETA. I have a few posts that I'd like to make but I'd rather wait until the 2.0 version is up so you don't have to re-post.




                              Sorry, Steve, we don't know exactly when the new site will launch, though it is imminent. Could be today or by the end of the weekend. We launched once and then had to revert because of server overload. So we're adding servers to help deal with the traffic.



                              Any posts made here will be copied over to the new site. So please feel free to post away!
                              Jon Chappell
                              Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                              Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                It's important to understand that each performer has his own section, and can plug in both an instrument (1/4" input) and a microphone (or other XLR connection), and can have simultaneous audio outputs (each with its own level control) and effects selection + level on the XLR.



                                But if you want everyone to have complete independence when mixing among all vocals and all instruments, you need to have just one input per section. This is still OK, because on the two upper-end JamHubs (the TourBus and GreenRoom), you have 7 sections available (1 through 6, plus the R section, which is functionally identical to the numbered sections).



                                This will accommodate, say, a four-piece band with three singers, a five-piece with two singers, or a three-piece with four singers. That's with full independence for all musicians to blend all the elements separately. To get a four-piece with four vocals (or a five-piece with three singers), you'd take the vocalist who sings the least, or the one assigned to the low/baritone harmony, and assign him/her to the one section that will receive two inputs. Now, the two-input section user can still control the inputs independently, but listeners no longer have separation of the voice and instrument within that section. With some canny matching, though (rhythm guitar and low harmony), you'll barely notice.



                                I point this out not as a criticism, but merely as an observation of how the section approach on the JamHub differs from a channel. (I'm still getting PMs from readers of this forum who have trouble distinguishing between the two.) On the one hand, a section effectively doubles the inputs an ordinary channel can accommodate (and includes effects and individual level controls). On the other, it's more of a direct relationship.



                                My discovery of how to optimally map the instruments of the ensemble to the JamHub's sections occurred only after I threw a ton of inputs at it and demanded the most flexibility. I'm still learning how to work the JamHub, and the design and functionality keeps impressing me, even after weeks of using the unit. Maybe it's because I lived in Manhattan for so many years, where rehearsal space was prohibitively expensive and people live on top of each other, but I really appreciate the design of this thing.
                                Jon Chappell
                                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jon_chappell
                                Check out my website: http://jonchappell.com

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