Coil split + series/parallel + phase switch

[thop]

So I posted an ad on craigslist offering temporary free electronic work on guitars. I want to get some practice without having to buy a new guitar every week, and maybe if I get some word of mouth references, I can start doing it for a little spending money since I just left my job to go to grad school.

 

The first response I got was from a guy who wants a SHH guitar with both humbuckers coil-split, a phase switch on the middle humbucker and a series/parallel on the bridge.

 

I can't find any diagrams of it. Can I just splice on an extra length of wire to the leads before I connect them to the coil splitter?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]337998[/ATTACH]

 

It seems like it could work, but then again it may screw with the circuit if the switches are toggled wrong. I'm not really sure. Since I'm teaching myself all this stuff I know what works and what doesn't and I can follows the paths of wiring, but I don't know the "whys" and "hows" if you know what I mean. You electronic smarty-pantses, where did you all learn this stuff from? Just out of curiosity.

[Belva]

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=series_spl_parallel-w-phase

SSH meaning a humbucker in the bridge position? This may work. Quite often I have to combine this and that from various diagrams. I'm not an electronics genius. I did get electronics training in airplane mech school but that was long ago and much has gone into that dark recess of my mind that is locked up.

[thop]

Thanks, I didn't see that diagram, that might help. It's going to be single in the neck, hum in the middle and hum at the bridge. I can never remember if thats SHH or HHS. It's not exactly what he wants, what he asked for was:

 

single coil - on/off switch

 

Mid - hum/off/split switch + phase switch

 

bridge - hum/off/split + series/parallel

 

I think the mid should be easy since phase switch means just switching the ground and hot leads, right? So all I'd need would be the one hot wire that's left over after it exits the coil splitter.

 

The series parallel is what I'm concerned about. Since I need all 4 leads for the coil split and all 4 leads for the series/parallel, I came up with the workaround I posted in the pic. It would involve me soldering an extension to each lead wire before it's hooked up to the coil splitter, making each one into a sort of a Y-split wire, with one end in the coil split and one end hooked to the series parallel.

 

 

I'm not sure it'll work the way I assume it will though, I don't really know how the current will behave if one is on, one is off, etc. Might get confused.

 

Maybe another way is better, like this hum/split/parallel diagram I found, and then hooking that up to and on/off toggle. Same basic functions, I think, just accessed differently.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]338000[/ATTACH]

[Belva]

You prolly will need 4 switches. One for series/spit/parallel and a separate one to turn the pup off.

[WRGKMC]

You cant reverse phase the the two coils in a humbucker with itself.

The coils completely cancel eachother out and you have practically no output.

You can only reverse phase both coils so they are out of phase with the other two pickups.

If anything I'd wire the single coil to be reverse phased. Its easier and will have better results.

[xadioriderx]

^^ not sure i agree. you mean it just shouldnt be done even though it can be done?

not a big deal in this case because it sounds like he wants the middle humbucker to fully reverse phase so when combined with others its OOP. an OOP hum with a SC is a crazy sound, have it on my strat!

 

anyways, the picture in the first post wont work as you want it. reason being when you use the switch on the right, if youre want say, bridge only, you dont get it, it would pull from both pups still.

 

ill draw up what you need, gimme a min. im just going to assume a master volume and tone, and a 5 way switch...

[xadioriderx]

alright, this assumes 1 vol, 1 tone, and a 5way switch. i used the import switch because its easiest to see, but i labeled so you can move them however needed

The Split switch will split both hums to single, and will split the bridge to single regardless of whether its in series or parallel. the series/parallel makes the bridge humbucker bobbins series, or parallel, obviously, and the Phase switches phase of the middle humbucker so that in settings 2 and 4 on the switch, you have OOP. this is a pretty neat setup, and will have a lot of sounds to it!

Please disregard colors, i ONLY choose colors for my wiring pictures so they will be easier to see. i also leave out ground wires jumping from pot to pot, to keep it neater in the picture, so you can add those.

 

 

and trust me, it works! =)

[thop]

 

^^ not sure i agree. you mean it just shouldnt be done even though it can be done? not a big deal in this case because it sounds like he wants the middle humbucker to fully reverse phase so when combined with others its OOP. an OOP hum with a SC is a crazy sound, have it on my strat! anyways, the picture in the first post wont work as you want it. reason being when you use the switch on the right, if youre want say, bridge only, you dont get it, it would pull from both pups still. ill draw up what you need, gimme a min. im just going to assume a master volume and tone, and a 5 way switch...

 

 

 

Ah thanks! I knew there was something off about it that I couldn't put my finger on. Thats a really interesting set up you drew. I like the intuitive interaction between all of them, it's a bit simpler than what I might end up doing.

 

I'll send him your design as well, but he wanted individual pickup on/off switches and individual coil splitting switches. I found a design that has pretty much everything he wanted, I'm waiting to hear back on it.

I'd just have to add the single coil to the circuit, eliminate the 5-way and add an on/off switch to each pickup before the volume. That should work, yeah?

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WD2HH3T22_08/Guitar-Wiring-Diagram-2-Humbuckers3-Way-Toggle-Switch2-Volumes2-TonesSeries-Split-Parallel-Reverse-Phase-Master-Series-Parallel.html

 

 

By the way I wasn't trying to put the humbucker out of phase with itself, I don't think thats what my design implied, did it? I had the hot wire and the ground going into the phase switch, wouldn't that just switch it's phase compared with the other pickups?

 

It's not a bad idea to have another phase switch on the single coil anyway. Why not?! This is gonna be fun, this guy's pickguard is gonna look like the console of a small plane.

[xadioriderx]

crap, i didnt notice that he wanted the off switches.

so does that mean he doesnt want pickup toggle switch at all? otherwise theres no purpose in having the off switches for each pup.

 

i dont see a possible way in making one switch do the hum/split/off. the link you posted has ser/split/par, which is different (obviously), and a series/parallel for BOTH pickups together, not each pickups individual bobbins. so really that link above isnt quite what he wants, although it would have a large variety of sounds.

 

one options you could do, is make the volume and tone knobs push/pull knobs, and put two of the switches from my diagram on the push pulls, then add 3 on off switches instead of the 5way in my diagram, so in the end you have 4 switches (split, neck off, mid off, bridge off), and each knob is a push/pull (ser/par, and phase reverse)

that way he minimizes how many toggle switches he needs (4 instead of his original 5), and utilizes the knobs as switches to keep space.

 

i wouldnt add a phase reversale to the single coil if there is one for the middle. if both are reversed, it sounds the same as if theyre both not reversed. theres only two sounds, IP and OOP, so if the middle reverses, you get every OOP sound possible except if you have bridge and neck on at the same time.

the concept of having tonssss of options is neat, but in the end it gets confusing and you only use about 3. personally i would use my diagram over adding 5 or 6 toggles, because it would get annoying and confusing.

but it IS his guitar, not mine.

if he wants options, go to my building page in my sig, and click wiring diagrams, then HH diagrams. the top one is 46 dif sounds using HH setup. use that, and add a single coil with an on off that runs straight to the output, then he will have 92 tonal options

and if he wants more, make the single coil reverse phase and get 138 tonal options

[WRGKMC]

That wiring diagram doesnt look roght to me. First, if thats a master tone, You have signal passing through the cap like a low pass filter

instead of the cap connecting between hot and ground to act as a Hig Pass Filter. Second I dont and ground wire for the series parallel switch.

[-=Pennywise=-]

what a wiring mess that thing is.... good luck is all I can say! lol

[xadioriderx]

 

That wiring diagram doesnt look roght to me. First, if thats a master tone, You have signal passing through the cap like a low pass filter instead of the cap connecting between hot and ground to act as a Hig Pass Filter. Second I dont and ground wire for the series parallel switch.

 

 

the tone is correct, the capacitor connects to the bottom of the tone pot, grounding it.

the brown wires are all ground wires, and as a mentioned i left out ground jumpers between the backs of pots to keep it a little neater looking on the diagram. the series/parallel is grounded via the lower left lug at all times.

the diagram is correct. i do a lot of diagrams!

 

and it wouldnt be that big of a mess, but because i use MS paint, and have to make so many different colors to make them stand out, it looks a lot more intense than it really is.

 

the only flukes in wiring it that way (and this kind of thing generally happens with this many functions), is when the bridge is set to parallel, and split, it doesnt actually split. only when in series. if you click the link in my sig, go to wiring diagrams, then HHS diagrams, i threw this one up there and listed out underneath all the different settings this gives you. there are 19 different tonal settings with it. 3 of them are flukes, and all 3 are what i described above, so they still get sound.

 

if you used a 3dpt for the split switch, i could make it without the flukes =)

[philbo]

I did this on an old aluminum-necked Kramer bass I've had for 36 years. It didn't work out that great - - the output jumps like 30 dB when switching between out-of-phase & in-phase.

 

The series-parallel switch doesn't seem to do that much to the tone, though it does boost the output when in series (and in-phase) versus parallel.

 

I've considered adding a pad (resistive attenuator) to the output when in-phase, to knock the output level down so it roughly matches the out-of-phase position, but haven't gotten around to it... I don't use it much any more since I got a new Ibanez bass for my fiance, who decided it was too tough on her manicure; so I use that one now most of the time.

[xadioriderx]

OOP is definitely a lot more quiet, more noticeably so when you use a clean tone (but with a clean tone it just sounds dumb anyways OOP), with a little distortion the level jump isnt near as bad. its definitely a tone only for certain people. if the guy has never used or heard it, you might suggest something else or suggest he hears it first