More analog: Spectralis or Q+ ?

Curious because these 2 monster hybrids seem neck and neck. I've heard great stuff on both, but I think the Spectralis sounds slightly more analog. I'd say it's close. I'm sure of the specs of it, but I'm not sure it's as deep as the Q+. Still, no way to comment on it's depth, but it does seem like a dang versatile box. I have the Polymorph from the old days, but it still kills for it's uniqueness of the sampled waveforms and killer sequencer. Man I love it.

Someone with a Q+ should buy one and then return it, just so you can record it and post clips of the Q+ side by side with it.

I wish I knew first hand.

I'm confused by the Spectralis; is any part of the architecture really analog, or is it all digital? You're calling it a hybrid, so I assume some part of it must be analog.

Originally posted by idiotboy I wish I knew first hand. I'm confused by the Spectralis; is any part of the architecture really analog, or is it all digital? You're calling it a hybrid, so I assume some part of it must be analog.

It 2 analog filters (one 24db and one 12db) for use in the hybrid synthesizer, and then an analog filter, or two, somewhere in the filterbank. The Q+ has 16 analog filters.

The spectralis definetly sounds very analog ...moreso than the demos Ive heard from the Q+....

They seem to me like two totally different synths...the Spectralis is more of a synth/sequencer ala ms2000, FR 777 etc where as the Q/Q+ is more just a standard synth. It has a powerful sequencer on it but its very poorly implemented.

The Spectralis would be better for creating sequences with and possibly a more analog sound but for overall sound creating there is no way it is as deep as the Q or Q+ matrix systems.

Yeah, I think you said it Electrobaby. If you want groovey analog hybrid sequences, the Spectralis wil probably blow your mind (given the sounds are good). The Q+ is more of a deep synthesis, create any type of sound analog hybrid.

I wonder how the Spectralis 2 or more analog filters compare to the 16 analog filters of the Q+, in terms of sound? Does the 16 make the Q+ more beefy sounding compared to just about 2 analog filters?

Someday I'd really like to try out the Spectralis. My Polymorph kills, I've had it forever, and add onto to it what the Spectralis, I could easily do whole sets with the Spectralis. Add a Jomox drum machine, another analog like the ATCX or Sunsyn, and a Macbook w/ Logic (and a sample library) The sky's the limit with that setup.

Well...it means you can have up to 16 note polyphony when using analog filters in your patches, as opposed to two voices on the Spectralis. You can also layer the Q+'s voices in unison mode....

Doesnt really do much in terms of sound, besides the unison mode. The filters on the Spectralis sound very Moogy to me, and the Q+'s filters sound pretty much like those on the Waldorf Pulse.

did they make a rack version of the Q+ ?

...he asked, doubtfully.

Nahhh, they said there wasnt enough room in the Q rack's chassis to fit the discrete analog filters

Saw a Q+ on eBay a couple of days ago - are those things really worth 3K and up?

Originally posted by idiotboy I wish I knew first hand. I'm confused by the Spectralis; is any part of the architecture really analog, or is it all digital? You're calling it a hybrid, so I assume some part of it must be analog.

Spectralis - the heart of the synth is what they call the 'hybrid' synth. The oscillators are digital, but it has analog filters. There is also a digital multiband filterbank. The Spectralis also has a drum synth and a simple rompler type digital synth, with their own digital filters. However, they can be also routed throught the analog filters, and/or the filterbank.

I think that the filters on the Q+ ARE the same as the ones on the pulse. I think....

Where do you get 2 voices on the spectralis? There are 4 oscillators - with the new software you can set up 3 trigger groups, so you could conceivably get 3 note polyphony. Where are you getting 2?

Originally posted by stikygum Yeah, I think you said it Electrobaby. If you want groovey analog hybrid sequences, the Spectralis wil probably blow your mind (given the sounds are good). The Q+ is more of a deep synthesis, create any type of sound analog hybrid. I wonder how the Spectralis 2 or more analog filters compare to the 16 analog filters of the Q+, in terms of sound? Does the 16 make the Q+ more beefy sounding compared to just about 2 analog filters? Someday I'd really like to try out the Spectralis. My Polymorph kills, I've had it forever, and add onto to it what the Spectralis, I could easily do whole sets with the Spectralis. Add a Jomox drum machine, another analog like the ATCX or Sunsyn, and a Macbook w/ Logic (and a sample library) The sky's the limit with that setup.

I'm not sure how the 16 filters would make the Q+ sound more beefy, unless you just layered 16 voices...obviously the Q+ has more polyphony.

I'm not sure that it's fair to call the Q 'deeper'. The Spectralis is plenty deep, though differently structured. There are, for instance 26 (!) pages of oscillator parameters, many which can be modulated, and quite a few with sub pages...

I love Waldorf synths, and I love the Spectralis. I don't own a Q+, but if you made me choose between the 2 synths, I'd choose the Q+. But the Spectralis is still developing at a pretty rapid rate....on the other hand, if you really like the Waldorf sound, the combo of the Q's features, multimbrality, and the analog filters would win me over. But I will have both before I die, if it kills me.

See this thread.

havent heard spectralis, but seems to me Q+ filters are more on the clean side, from all i heard of it (mostly Boele's stuff), and i recall Array confirmed this once we chat about it.

the filter ain't built from CEMs, or even based on emulating CEM topology. a different sound, not as geared towards dirty/gritty/saturated as older Waldorf hybrids, like Wave/microWave.

@array:

you said discrete filters, but afaik like in X-Pole, they have some ICs, so "discrete" is perhaps debatable. but, aside from what is really inside, it sure doesn't sound "discrete" to me, as in huge/warm like, for example, a filter on Omega8 or other SE stuff. what do u think?

btw i always wondered why haven't u ever posted some more elaborate demos of Q+ in action, with heavy use of analog section ??!? c'mon man, talk is cheap, do some heavyduty mp3..

i'm sure many of us here would welcome it.. it's such a rare beast.

everyone in favor - raise hand ..

:thu: :thu:

(I'm all thumbs)

I get it! The meaning of the hand is that there should be more Q+s in the world.

There's only 2 analog filters, so one of those three groups will have to bypass a filter.

Originally posted by clusterchord havent heard spectralis, but seems to me Q+ filters are more on the clean side, from all i heard of it (mostly Boele's stuff), and i recall Array confirmed this once we chat about it. the filter ain't built from CEMs, or even based on emulating CEM topology. a different sound, not as geared towards dirty/gritty/saturated as older Waldorf hybrids, like Wave/microWave. @array: you said discrete filters, but afaik like in X-Pole, they have some ICs, so "discrete" is perhaps debatable. but, aside from what is really inside, it sure doesn't sound "discrete" to me, as in huge/warm like, for example, a filter on Omega8 or other SE stuff. what do u think? btw i always wondered why haven't u ever posted some more elaborate demos of Q+ in action, with heavy use of analog section ??!? c'mon man, talk is cheap, do some heavyduty mp3.. i'm sure many of us here would welcome it.. it's such a rare beast. everyone in favor - raise hand ..

I've allways wondered about the "discrete" nomenchlature that Waldorf has been using to market their synth. I'm too much of a {censored} to open mine up though

The best picture that I've found on the internet of the filter section is here:

It starts to the left of the MIDI In/Out/Through ports and sort of looks like the slots for RAM that you would have on a PC. Everything to the right of that is a standard Q mainboard.

I posted an electro demo a while back that uses a lot of analog sounds. Just about every patch in the Synderesis track (barring the drums and the arp which goes from square to saw) uses an analog filter:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=545618

Wow, that answers that question. Sure missed that thread....

Thanks for the assist.

hmmm - don't think so. Those are trigger groups. You can still route any of the oscillators through any of the filters. Maybe I misunderstand you.

But you can set up trigger group one to trigger oscillator 1 and the low pass filter...and trigger group two to trigger oscillator 2 and the multimode filter, and trigger group 3 to oscillator 3 and the filter bank, etc...but for the filters, that just means triggering the spectralis filter envelopes. YOu can still route the oscillators any way you want. For instance, you can still route oscillator 1 through the filter bank.

What about the trigerring of filter envelopes though?

Looks like you responded before I edited a little - but right - the triggering refers to the filter envelopes, but you don't need those envelopes active to use the filters. At least this is how I'm understanding the functionality. The envelopes are for modulation. You can trigger the 3 oscillators separately through the 3 trigger groups, set up the analog lp and multimode filters to be triggered through any of those 3 trigger groups, and also the digital filterbank. But that's independent of the actual routing.

That was a nearly perfect decription of the routing and trigger group functionality, droolmaster.

For me, the best thing about the independent routing and trigger assign functionality is the opportunity to control a FM modulator totally independent from the FM carrier. Setting the note line for a FM modulator to a different sequence length gives you a lot of room for experiments. Let some other lines controlling the waveform shape, the pitch, the filter resonance, the cutoff, the modulation depth of an LFO etc. creates very nice textures and sound movements.

Since the last update it's possible to control external MIDI equipment with the sequencer as well. External signals can be used as FM modulators for the filters. Controlling these external synths with the step sequencer to create FM sounds built up with internal and external components is a big playground as well.

Comparing the Waldorf Q+ with the Spectralis is like comparing an wurlitzer e-piano with a hammond organ. Both instruments are doing complete different things, both are doing that well and it is better to have both than deciding between both units;-)

I am using my Q (without analog filters) together with my spectralis. The Q is mostly for polyphonic special FX Pad sounds and the Spectralis is doing the rest. It's a dream team together - especially since the Spectralis is able to control the Q;-)

Here a little demo of the speckie - without the Q...

http://www.spectralis.de/demos/spectralis_multitrack2.MP3

I used multitrack recording for this demo. It shows the sound of the analogue filters though. The accompaigning pattern is a sequence where the filter cutoff frequency of the lowpass filter is modulated by a sequence line.

(sigh of relief)....yeah, I was confused initially about how those components worked together, but then I got it. It's pretty slick. Perhaps I mean 'sick'.

Hey - Joerg - don't know if you're coming back here - but (I forget) - when do you plan to add midi controllers to the midi output? That's the one thing currently that currently inclines me away from using the Spectralis to control other gear. Controllers with envelopes....now that would be cool...

Also - do you plan to add probabilities to other events?

Well, I'll get to asking this on the Spectralis forum.

Oh - if the original question was at all oriented towards 'which should I buy', I think that Joerg provided the perfect solution - get the Spectralis and the Q minus (unless you can afford the Q+). My Q32 (in the ultra acoustically efficient blue) should be arriving in the next few days. I'm thinking that the Q into the speckie's filters will be fun.