Choosing a digital piano (need help on)

Hi everybody,

After trying my midi controller and getting more obsessed with classical piano I'm considering buying a digital piano, now that I've got enough ca$h .

So what do I want: hammer action 88 keys, all three pedals, piano sample playback rathen than sound generation/synth, wooden cabinet with really firm ground.

I'm currently looking at three models:

1. Yamaha Clavinova CLP 220 (has three pedals, lacks any extra controls and an LCD, but I don't mind, I only want good keyboard feel and sound).

and these two are about the same price, but much cheaper than Yamaha.

2. Casio Celviano AP-24 (looks good, but lacks soft pedal, I wonder what are the disadvantages of that).

3. Behringer EuroGrand 2080 (seems to have everything I need plus more buttons and an LCD, similar to a much more expensive Clavinova than the one above. I wonder if this is quality stuff, being this cheap compared to Yamaha and all, although it's made in Germany).

Of course I'll try before buying, but I believe there are things that you don't see at first. So I very much count on your thoughts , like which brand is better and trustworthier, what features should I be aiming at, what common disadvantages should I be avoiding and so on.

Thanks in advance.

The Eurogrands are "conceived and designed in Germany" but . . . they're manufactured in China.

I see. Is that good or bad? Probably bad.

It depends on how long they've been making them there.

Personally, I wouldn't compare anything that Behringer makes to anything Yamaha makes. I've been buying Yamaha gear since the seventies and never really had a problem with any of their hardware. Now their user interfaces are a different matter, but quality has always been great.

Mike T.

The EuroGrand seems to be a 2007 model. Can't find any reviews or even photos of it. Must be really new.

So, what are the disadvantages of having 2 (damper and sostenuto) pedals instead of 3? Just how often the soft pedal is being used?

Quote by sergage:

"So, what are the disadvantages of having 2 (damper and sostenuto) pedals instead of 3? Just how often the soft pedal is being used?"

That depends on what you play and how you play. With classical music, you might use all three pedals on a traditional piano. Other music, probably not.

Mike T.

Depends on what you like and what it sounds like. I use the soft pedal a lot (on a real piano & plugin): it has a more boomphy (as opposed to clacka) sound that I like for accompaniment, then let it off when I want to cut through.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Casio-Celviano-AP24-Digital-Piano?sku=706063

Here it sais:

Does this mean I can switch functions for the pedal?

P.S.

And just where is Casio manufactured?

Sergage:

I checked the photo out of the Casio. No, the pedals are static. the one on the left is the soft pedal, the one on the right is the damper pedal. Why would you want to switch them? That's a standard setup.

I don't know where Casio is made these days, but I would take a Casio over anything Behringer if the Yamaha is out of my budget. They've got pretty good reviews in KB mag.

Mike T.

Then why does it say "soft slash sostenuto".

In music, sostenuto is a term from Italian which means "sustained,"

Basically, the Casio has both. And you're starting to ask questions that aren't important. If you can play, even a little, go to a local dealer that has the piano(s) you are interested in and try them out. Casio can be found in mass marketers, so don't expect any help. "Some" dealers handle Casio but might try to steer you to a more expensive model. Not a lot of profit in a $599 piano.

Mike T.

So, how can we compare the Casio and Yamaha models, besides the one pedal. Both have pretty good reviews.

P.S.

What is polyphony? Some have 32 note or 64 note polyphony. What does it mean?

sergage:

Casio is more of a "value" piano. Not of the highest quality, but more of a consumer instrument. I'm not saying its junk, but its not meant to compete with Yamaha. Its usually considered more "entry level". But Casio can be a good instrument to get started on, especially if you don't have a lot of $$$ and you're not sure what you want or what you're going to want in the future. You can get a very nice instrument for way under $1000 USD (even less than $500) take some lessons and learn how to play. You'll know when its time to move up to a more professional instrument. That's where Yamaha comes in. They've been making high quality digital pianos for "years". Better workmanship, better samples, nice action, numerous features, but a lot more expensive.

Don't forget, Roland makes nice digital pianos, and so does GEM. Shop around for what you feel comfortable playing. If you don't play, go to a music store where there IS someone who can play an listen.

One thing to keep in mind, actions and touch vary greatly from one piano maker to the next. Some like Yamaha action, others prefer Roland, etc. There is not right and wrong to what you prefer. Money is usually the deciding factor, unfortunately.

Polyphony is the number of notes that can be played at the same time. The higher the number, the better.

I'm on my way out the door for the day. I hope what I have written is some help, maybe others can chime in with their opinions.

Mike T.

Thanks Mike, things seem clearer now .

Unfortunately I live in Eastern Europe. Things become very expensive once they get here. The Casio AP24, which is $550 at in the US, costs $1130 here. That's twice the price.

I finally found a Roland reseller here. I'd have to wait for the weekend to end and check what they have to offer.

They definitely don't sell GEM here.

I just thought of something. Even if I don't find someone at the store who can play the piano for me to listen, I can play the demo songs on the pianos . I hope they play the songs as MIDI files rather than a whole prerecorded piece.

Sergage:

Be sure to check out Casio's website before you visit a dealer that carries them. Apparently, the AP24 is a discontinued model. That could work to your advantage if you find a dealer that still has one in stock and wants to move it.

I don't understand why our European friends get ripped off on instrument prices. Any idea why? Is it just import duties and taxes over the actual selling price of an instrument? God. That would probably put Roland digital pianos out of reach for you.

Built in demos are fine for listening to the sound, but you really need to play it to get a feel for the action and response of the KB. A salesman can play it for you too, but I'm not sure how much of an objective opinion you're going to get. Factory demos are usually something that is built into a ROM on the digital piano so I doubt that its a midi file. I didn't see any demos on Casio's site, but I didn't spend a lot of time there either. You may want to check it out.

Later,

Mike T.

Tell me about it man. Ireland is fast becoming the most expensive country in the world to live in, certainly in Europe anyway. I can expect to pay at least double, and two and a half times more than you guys pay for any keyboards. And if I order from the US, I'll get a nice letter from customs asking me to pay import duty, which is substantial.

I don;t know the reason, but it's true of EVERYTHING here, not just keyboards.

In answer to Sergage, in my opinion, if you can afford the Yamaha, get it.

Behringer stuff is made from old Coke cans and held together by the sticky residue that the former liquid occupant of those very cans left behind, stay well clear.

If you can get hold of the RD-700: I have one and it is excellent and perfectly adequate for classical. Don't get hung up on pedals initially other than a sustain, they're cheap and plug straight in.

I'm classically trained (many, many years), my "real" piano is a Bluthner, but I'd reco the RD

good luck

F

RD-700 is a stage piano. And it seems to be really expensive. My aim is a piano with a wooden cabinet and integrated speakers and sampled piano sounds. Other than that I already have a midi controller and NI Akoustik Piano on my PC. What I want is a standalone wooden home piano.

By the way, what's with 32 or 64 note polyphony if you can play no more than 10 notes at a time? Or maybe a little more if you press more than one key with one finger, but definitely not more than 32 or 64 .

What can you say about Roland HP-70? As action and touch.

Quote by sergage:

"By the way, what's with 32 or 64 note polyphony if you can play no more than 10 notes at a time? Or maybe a little more if you press more than one key with one finger, but definitely not more than 32 or 64"

Don't forget, when you play an Arpeggio, you will be sustaining those notes as you continue to make your your way up the KB. If you don't have enough polyphony, the lower notes will stop sounding as you play new ones. SO, you certainly have use for more than 10 notes polyphony.

Mike T.

Why is the wood important? What matters is how it sounds, not how it looks. I also have a wooden piano ... a Bluthner grand - go google.

"stage piano" is a label. What matters is sound and feel, and the feel is crucial in achieving the sound - it has to feel right and the keys have to function correctly.

imo the rd-700 (for the money) is *way* better than any budget wooden model ...

try one :-)

The RD700 has no built in speakers though does it???

I'm sure that's important. Plus, if it's something that's gonna be in your home for a long time, it's important you get the aesthetics right.

I just found out that hammer actions are different. So what should I look for if I want keys to be less resistant to touch. What's the term for that?

Well, any wooden framed digital piano is gonna have a weighted hammer action. Different manufacturers well have different weights. The only way to see which one suits you best is to try them.

Again, I'd have to say that I find Yamaha's have the best action.

Casio has released the PX-800 digital piano that may meet your needs. It is newer technology than even the AP-45. Weighted, Graded Hammer action. 128 Polyphony. 40watt 4 speaker sound system. New acoustic resonance technology. Has 3 pedal system. Very small footprint so you can put it just about anywhere. Keyboard Player Magazine was pretty happy with it:

---------------------------------

Keyboard Player Issue 311 had a review of the PX-800 and they had some comments, a few of which I paraphrase:

They felt the action/touch is a bit heavy compared to other digital pianos

Piano Sound 1 has an attractive 'bell-like' tone in mid to upper registers and "No Nasties lurking about" (in the sound).

They were happy with the new acoustic resonance feature that enhanced the piano-like resonance effect(works as advertised)

They noted the sound system had "No bass roll off like previous models"

Features were strong. Biggest complaint was some features took a few button pushes and the LED display was limited.

They said the music desk was real glass.

Overall: "Good value for money..."

FWIW,

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