Members Igor_ Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 I have been reading about Ableton - Seems like an interesting tool. Kilon, if you're reading this, I believe you mentioned on some other posts that you have extensively used this sequencer. How do you like it? Also, I never hear anything about Sony (Formerly Sonic Foundry) Acid anymore these days. What happened to Acid? Didn't it evolve into a useful sound production/sequencing platform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Nearly all software DAW/Sequencer manufacturers allow you to download and demo their products, including the two you mention: Sonar 7 Trial:http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/kb20061101.asp Ableton Live 7 Demo:http://www.ableton.com/pages/downloads/demo?product_key=D_00_70 Sony Acid Pro 6:http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/step2.asp?DID=661 Propellerhead Reason 4http://www.propellerheads.se/remote.cfm?sID=dynamo&menu=/download/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_menu&page=/download/index.cfm?fuseaction=download_reason_demo SoundOnSound has in-depth reviews on all of the major software DAWs:http://www.soundonsound.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted January 11, 2008 Members Share Posted January 11, 2008 Acid is still Windows only which has hurt them somewhat, Live is cross-platform. Yes, Acid does have the usual DAW functionality these days (VST support, MIDI, etc.). Maybe it's just Sony pushing the home hobby market more than the pro market? You can buy the Home Studio version in places like Best Buy for $70. That's where I got my copy, I only use it for loop manipulations...it's easier to do it there than in my Motif. Ableton also has the advantage of having "Lite" versions bundled with many keyboards. Live and Cubase seem to be the most common bundled apps, which as Microsoft shrewdly figured out decades ago helps a lot with market share The free version of Acid can't record audio or MIDI and only renders to WMA, making it almost useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted January 11, 2008 Members Share Posted January 11, 2008 The advantage of ableton is that it's like a live jam tool where you're more in control of your midi sequences. In contrast I've often felt that programs like acid and fruity loops have too much emphasis on dragging loops around and not enough on musical composition. BTW I was hoping to shoot a quick demo of live for youtube today.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kilon Posted January 11, 2008 Members Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have been reading about Ableton - Seems like an interesting tool. Kilon, if you're reading this, I believe you mentioned on some other posts that you have extensively used this sequencer. How do you like it?Also, I never hear anything about Sony (Formerly Sonic Foundry) Acid anymore these days. What happened to Acid? Didn't it evolve into a useful sound production/sequencing platform? Imagine a software that works like a sketchpad, anything can be controlled and changed in real time. Imagine a software that using it is like playing with legos , everything is made from little blocks. If ableton live was not called "Live" (for obvious reasons) it would be called "Assembler". Those blocks are called clips . A clip can be either audio or midi. It might be a loop or not a loop as well. You may also rush into using midi clips just because you assume that midi is more flexible than audio. But in ableton live there is no difference between audio or midi flexibility . There is simple no AUDIO OR MIDI. There is only the clip. Throw your Cubase , Logic or any other linear interfaces in the bin. There is nothing linear about Live. The clip is alive , the clip "is the force". Clips can be intelligent too , they can trigger each other making the arrangement view ( see linear interface) a secondary features. Clips can also be triggered randomly which will result in random arrangements. Imagine leaving ableton live playing an arrangement for hours without nothing sounding the same. The arrangement view exists only to make other users coming from linear packages feel more comfortable. Each clip can be assigned by midi note, that means that each clip can be used as an arpeggiator and be controlled as any arpeggiator by midi notes. Anything can be assigned by midi learn to any midi controller available. Assigning a instrument to a midi track is a simple drag and drop process. The clip has specific kind of envelops which can resequence audio , transpose, stretch or automate any feature . The midi fold action make sure that in your midi clip view only notes that you play appear, making midi editing a piece of cake. You can easily layer your instruments the same way the combinator is doing it in Reason. That means , split point, velocity layers and an easy page (called macro controls) for easy modifying your sound on the fly . The emphasis on Live is not perfection , after all nothing is perfect. The emphasis is the live- real time interaction with the user and flexibility - speed in music production. if you want to see the true power of live and many feature I have not discussed then your first stop should be here http://www.ableton.com/movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Palaver Posted January 11, 2008 Members Share Posted January 11, 2008 Imagine a software that works like a sketchpad, anything can be controlled and changed in real time. Imagine a software that using it is like playing with legos , everything is made from little blocks. If ableton live was not called "Live" (for obvious reasons) it would be called "Assembler". Those blocks are called clips . A clip can be either audio or midi. It might be a loop or not a loop as well. You may also rush into using midi clips just because you assume that midi is more flexible than audio. But in ableton live there is no difference between audio or midi flexibility . There is simple no AUDIO OR MIDI. There is only the clip. Throw your Cubase , Logic or any other linear interfaces in the bin. There is nothing linear about Live. The clip is alive , the clip "is the force". Clips can be intelligent too , they can trigger each other making the arrangement view ( see linear interface) a secondary features. Clips can also be triggered randomly which will result in random arrangements. Imagine leaving ableton live playing an arrangement for hours without nothing sounding the same. The arrangement view exists only to make other users coming from linear packages feel more comfortable. Each clip can be assigned by midi note, that means that each clip can be used as an arpeggiator and be controlled as any arpeggiator by midi notes. Anything can be assigned by midi learn to any midi controller available. Assigning a instrument to a midi track is a simple drag and drop process. The clip has specific kind of envelops which can resequence audio , transpose, stretch or automate any feature . The midi fold action make sure that in your midi clip view only notes that you play appear, making midi editing a piece of cake. You can easily layer your instruments the same way the combinator is doing it in Reason. That means , split point, velocity layers and an easy page (called macro controls) for easy modifying your sound on the fly . The emphasis on Live is not perfection , after all nothing is perfect. The emphasis is the live- real time interaction with the user and flexibility - speed in music production. if you want to see the true power of live and many feature I have not discussed then your first stop should be here http://www.ableton.com/movies Ableton and the MacBook Pro is simply the greatest musical purchase I've ever made. I find for speed, and getting out ideas, nothing is faster or more efficient. It's fun, and (for me), has improved my workflow 10-fold. The one very powerful tool in it is it's chart system. It's awesome for figuring out how long musical ideas should run, and for doing neat things like trying leads from a verse and dropping it into your bridge, etc. Also, it's great for jamming. Loop your bridge, and practice the solo, etc. It's just incredible. It's a wonderful VST host, and it's great for planning your songs. It's super stable. I am running Ableton Live Suite, and I can't wait to get the drum/instrument libraries to come in. I am still learning how to use all of it's functions, but I am almost there. This program is a little pricey (especially Suite... I bought the Suite as an upgrade), but it's just phenominal. After I finish writing, the next process is going over to Logic and banging through the mastering process and that setup. Supposedly, the Logic/Ableton combo works amazing. If you like writing, get Ableton. Period. My one problem with Ableton is the arrangement view. It can be kind of weird for tracking vox that don't work as loops (hence my need for Logic as well as it's waveburner application)... but that's a very small gripe. It's still very usable, and Live 7 has phasing/spectral tools as well. I'm a huge huge fanboy:thu::thu: More importantly, when you find something that turns your workflow into lightspeed, it's a wonderful thing, and it's very inspiring. That for me is Ableton... it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'd highly recommend you giving it a whirl. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Igor_ Posted January 11, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2008 Imagine a software that works like a sketchpad, anything can be controlled and changed in real time. Imagine a software that using it is like playing with legos , everything is made from little blocks. If ableton live was not called "Live" (for obvious reasons) it would be called "Assembler". Those blocks are called clips . A clip can be either audio or midi. It might be a loop or not a loop as well. You may also rush into using midi clips just because you assume that midi is more flexible than audio. But in ableton live there is no difference between audio or midi flexibility . There is simple no AUDIO OR MIDI. There is only the clip. Throw your Cubase , Logic or any other linear interfaces in the bin. There is nothing linear about Live. The clip is alive , the clip "is the force". Clips can be intelligent too , they can trigger each other making the arrangement view ( see linear interface) a secondary features. Clips can also be triggered randomly which will result in random arrangements.Imagine leaving ableton live playing an arrangement for hours without nothing sounding the same. The arrangement view exists only to make other users coming from linear packages feel more comfortable. Each clip can be assigned by midi note, that means that each clip can be used as an arpeggiator and be controlled as any arpeggiator by midi notes. Anything can be assigned by midi learn to any midi controller available. Assigning a instrument to a midi track is a simple drag and drop process. The clip has specific kind of envelops which can resequence audio , transpose, stretch or automate any feature . The midi fold action make sure that in your midi clip view only notes that you play appear, making midi editing a piece of cake. You can easily layer your instruments the same way the combinator is doing it in Reason. That means , split point, velocity layers and an easy page (called macro controls) for easy modifying your sound on the fly . The emphasis on Live is not perfection , after all nothing is perfect. The emphasis is the live- real time interaction with the user and flexibility - speed in music production. if you want to see the true power of live and many feature I have not discussed then your first stop should be herehttp://www.ableton.com/movies Hey Kilon,Thank you very much! That was awesome! Very informative indeed. Ableton Live seems like a truly fascinating music composition tool. I will go and check out that movies link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Igor_ Posted January 11, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2008 Hi Phil,Thank you for the post! That is awesome that it is a tool that actually speeds up the writing process. I need to definitely take a look at Ableton Live.. Thanks for your input. It sounds excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wetwareinterface Posted January 12, 2008 Members Share Posted January 12, 2008 personally i prefer acid over ableton.it has the same this is a clip of something and you can stretch it or pitch it up/down as you want to mentality. but it is also linear which makes it a bit easier to manage what your arrangement is doing. it treats audio as a clip and it treats midi as a clip. the midi editing functions in acid are really basic but i have a full fledged midi sequencer i lay down ideas with so that's not a hinderance to me. also i use cool edit pro to edit up the wavefiles so the lack of audio editing doesn't bother me either. ableton is a bit busier in the interface which for common tasks slows down the workflow. for more complex things you can get them done faster probably in ableton than acid but like i said i do all my editing offline in other more capable software so i don't worry about that. acid is basically a great arragement tool, you don't need to sweat what tempo or key you wrote a certain thing in as you can change either in acid after the fact. you just go and record little bits of audio or midi here and there and when the mood strikes you compose stuff up into a song. this is the way i prefer to work now and acid changed my work habits literally. i used to sequence stuff and then when inspiration left i'd shelve it and come back to it later and then spend a lot of time having to figure out where i left off before i could start again. now i just record little phrases and drum parts and little loops of stuff and store them all. when i feel like putting a song together i just go through and browse my stuff and fit things where i feel they should go and when i'm mostly done i simply write the few pieces i need to finish it up. makes writing go a whole lot faster and you even can reuse bits as you can tweak them beyond recognition on the fly in acid. i see ableton more as a live performance sequencer and acid more as an arranger tool. acid also makes a great multi track recorder package in addition to being the best live pitch/time strecther. ableton is almost as good at realtime pitch / time stretching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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