So what's a good way to tell a drummer to stay in the pocket?

I swear my drummer is ADD. He's really very good, but if we practice a song enough, he starts getting WAY too creative with it. I mean, why can't he just sit back and rock out like the rest of us do. It's not like my guitar parts are really challenging for me to play; I just love the song and perform it the best I can. We're a rock band, not jazz fusion or prog. I don't need snare accents on every vocal line and guitar riff. It's just stupid 4/4 or 3/4...

Fortunately none of this really applies to live situations, but he takes some SERIOUS creative liberties during practice. It doesn't leave ANY room to get creative with guitar that's for sure...

So?

If it really sounds ridiculous, record him and show it to him.

Problem is that it's really good if he were playing free jazz. It's a matter of taste (ours vs. his)...

It's not like it's a huge problem, just a couple of parts here and there. I just don't feel comfortable telling other people how to play there instruments and I NEED to...

Tell him that you think his playing is awesome, but that it doesn't fit the "feel" of the song or the part. It would also be a good idea to get the other guys to back you up. Tell him that he can be creative and do all of his fills in certain parts of the song, but that for the sake of capturing the right feel of a certain part, he has to lay back and play in the pocket.

Try "Hey Portnoy Jr, stay in the pocket on this one"

Honesty is the best policy.

A lot of inexperienced players don't know the truth, which is, overplaying is WAY unhip. It can bring a band down hard. A song is not a drum solo. Soloing the whole song is absolutely THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO. Period. Plus, he won't work in his town or any town. It's a great way to get fired fast.

Then throw him a P-Funk disc and ask him does he FEEL anything when he hears that.

A "really good drummer"would stay in tteh pocket especially with the bass player.there is a time and a place for fills. paradiddles,rolls and what evers in a song......we drummers are relagated to providing the beat..... the tempo, and to LISTEN to the song and to the rest of the band as it unfolds an dstay in tthe pocket accordingly.

Make him play it was a kick and a snare.

Why do you have a slash between Jawbreaker and Jets to Brazil? They only thing they had in common was Blake.

Another guitar player pissed off when anyone else in the band does anything remotely cool thus taking the spotlight off the real "star" .. gee that

Well, that's quite a bit to have in common I'd say, but I completely understand your point. I love both bands for ENTIRELY different reasons...

Speaking of great pocket drummers, how about Chris Daly and Adam Pfaler?

Adam is a pretty sweet drummer. His stuff wasn't amazing technically or flashy, but it was always very tasteful and solid. My understanding is that he still drums but I don't remember him being in a band right now, I guess blackball keeps him busy.

Originally posted by Ponch_A_Rella   Another guitar player pissed off when anyone else in the band does anything remotely cool thus taking the spotlight off the real "star" .. gee that

Originally posted by TheBoatCanDream Adam is a pretty sweet drummer. His stuff wasn't amazing technically or flashy, but it was always very tasteful and solid. My understanding is that he still drums but I don't remember him being in a band right now, I guess blackball keeps him busy.

To my knowledge, he's still playing with Whysall Lane a little bit. I don't know how active they are though...

I just love how he can go from bare-bones like "Accident Prone" and then just EXPLODE like on "Parabola"...

Even though it's kind of cliche, we do a pretty cool cover of "Chesterfield King"...

Forget about hurting his feelings. If you don't tell him, someone else will and that someone WON'T be his friend. It's ok to tell him he's over playing.

If you truly are a less is more minimalist kinda guy and not a typical ego manic guitarist then you need a band full of less is more musicians... I personally would never want come to listen to a band like that but hey whatever floats your boat..... there are millions of less is more minimalist bands out there that are famous today... I I own none of their albums though LOL

I happen to follow Neil Peart

Ataris,

Are you the fella that was moving to Fort Collins?

I had the same problem for a while ('cept I'm the drummer). The guy just told me to simmer down, simplify it. Heh, it worked.

If it's only at practice then it might be the same issue I have. I play way overboard at practice, not because I think it sounds cool, but because I want to see what works and what doesn't. And so we don't play the song 1000 times, I'll fill way more than usual to fit in everything I want to try. I would never play like that live. But my band mates did once ask me why I did this, and once I explained they were cool with it and appreciated that I was working on things like that. It might be the same issue.

Great point. It sounds like Ataris drummer is smart enough to remain tasteful and "safe" in the live setting, so I don't have too much of a problem experimenting and taking chances at practice. After all, rarely do you know if something is cool and will work, unless you try it. Frankly, I wouldn't get down on creativity and experimentation. In the long run, it can only help contribute to the music. If you never give some things a try, you'll never know what you may be missing.

Since it's only a practice issue and you said you keep your own guitar playing as minimalist as possible, I don't see what the problem is. You say his noodling invades your ability to be creative, but then you also say you just want to keep things simple. Which is it? In this regard, to a degree, I gotta agree with Ponch. If you want minimalism, then you don't need a guy who wants to experiment or exhaust his creative juices.

But again, he's obviously tasteful and smart enough to play it "right" live, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it...unless of course you really DO want to start ripping off solos left and right...

I don't agree with this concept. You need to play the same as possible with your band mates so they know what to expect. You should ALWAYS practice with the same intensity and the same parts as you'd play live.

Work on parts at home not with the band.

I'd rather work on parts with the band, it's different than home alone. If a part needs work as a band, then I know enough not to experiment then.

I do think it's important to at least practice each song once as it will be played live, but without experimentation and creativity, how else do you discover any new and cool ideas? IMO, a song is never "complete." It can always be refined, tweaked, improved - hell, sometimes I get bored just playing the song the same damn way every time that it's just fun and fresh to do something different once in a while.

Also, certainly it's important to work out parts on your own as well, but sometimes great things simply come out of improv, spur of the moment ideas...they have a much better chance of not sounding "calculated," that's for sure. I don't know about you, but I typically stumble upon the good ideas more often than I come up with them. It's all about trying and experimenting as much as possible and simply picking the best ideas out of the bunch.

It's not smart to keep changing up a song. Get it where you want it and move on. Make the next song better, but don't work on the same one trying to make it better. Chances are, you're not.

All the best bands play the same songs the same way everytime. That's how a band gels. I just don't think it's professional or smart to always change a song. If the bassist played a differnt rif every time, how would you ever get tight?

I'm probably in the minority here I guess.

There is no right or wrong on this topic. It's about having an agreement with the band, and sticking to that agreement.

Different people have different views of what should be done at practice, on stage, and at home. Try to stick with people that feel the same way you do about it.

I think we've stumbled upon the real issue here. If the guy is cool in live situations, then the problem isn't a total emergency. He probably IS just trying different things to see if they work...I do it all the time myself.

The key, however, is to open up the lines of communications. You really can't go wrong doing so. You don't have to be a dick about it, just do it in a calm and professional way, like "hey dickwad, what's with all the fills? You don't do that stuff live, why are you doing it here?"....or words to that effect. If his name isn't "dickwad", then insert his real name. Anyway, he'll either say that he's experiementing with new things to try (nothing wrong with that) or that he's going to try to incorporate all of his fancy licks into the song. If you refer to him as "dickwad", he might refer to you as "asshole"...but if you use your given names that can be avoided.

Anyway, once you understand what he's doing, you won't fear it anymore. If he's just experimenting, let him go for it for a take, and then say "let's play it one more time exactly as if we were doing it live in front of 50,000 people"...so you've got your 'experimental' takes along with your 'real world' takes.

On the other hand, if it appears that this is the direction that he wants to take the music, it's a perfect opportunity for you to explain how YOU envision the song and how HE invisions it, and try to come to an agreement on how you'll actually play it.