Tama Tension Watch Settings

[WorshipMetallica]

Does anyone use this device? If so what heads do you use and what are the tensions on them.

[Rain Dog]

I'm interested in this too. I wonder how it works, I mean how exactly does it measure tension?

 

[Dark Slide]

We basically used these when I was taking graphic arts to check the tension on screens for screenprinting.

 

It sat on the screen and on the base there was a device that pressed against the screen (Out the bottom of the tension guage) and was able to tell us the tension.

 

It's hard to explain I guess haha. Fuck. You put it on the head and it tells you how tight it is at that paticular spot... that's all you need to know

[Rain Dog]

Originally posted by Dark Slide We basically used these when I was taking graphic arts to check the tension on screens for screenprinting. It sat on the screen and on the base there was a device that pressed against the screen (Out the bottom of the tension guage) and was able to tell us the tension. It's hard to explain I guess haha. Fuck. You put it on the head and it tells you how tight it is at that paticular spot... that's all you need to know

Actually that explanation was plenty good for me. I understand how it works and I think I'll spend my $70 on something else.

 

Thanks

[dkwan]

I had one for a while. It works pretty well, but I prefer to tune by ear so I sold it.

[Thexder]

 

Originally posted by dkwan I had one for a while. It works pretty well, but I prefer to tune by ear so I sold it.

 

 

Ever since I bought drums, I can't seem to TUNE by ear, so I'm considering buying one. Not that I can't make the drum produce a consistent pitch at all lugs, but it just never feels right, tension wise, the center of the head feels TOO tight on my 12" pretty much no matter what I have tried, not a musical tom for me. So I thought I might get a gauge and set a head that way to see if it's supposed to be that way.

 

I wonder what a used one costs...might scan ebay

[WorshipMetallica]

That's kinda why I bought it. It seems on my toms, and floor tom, when tune them they are way too loose, and they have that papery sound, like that "slap" sound too them, they're just too loose, and you can't roll on them what so ever. But they do have that nice bass tone that toms should have, and DO have. But I'll tune them up more, to where they loose that papery sound, and the attack from the stick is nice and crisp, but then they loose all bass, and sound so thin. I can't figure it out, the tension watch hasn't really helped at all, the default tension settings are way too loose. I still had this problem with the hydraulics, but it wasn't as bad, so I just ignored it, but with 50 bucks worth of new heads, it's hard to ignore

 

I'm beginning to suspect maybe the shells are the reason for the crappy sound qaulity, I mean, my kit DID only cost like 250 bucks including cymbals and all hardware. My Iron Cobra Double Pedal is worth more than my kit!

[WorshipMetallica]

I just thought of something. I have stock resonant heads, so I'm assuming they got to be like around ambassador weight, which is what, 10mil I think? It's quite obvious that you have to tune the light weight resonant higher to get rid of that papery sound than you do to a heavier pinstripe, so what if I got something like a Pinstripe or maybe even an Emperor on the resonant side? That way I wouldn't have to tune as high to get rid of that papery sound, hence, I could achieve a lower tone, which hopefully could sound better on my toms. Maybe I could put some black hydraulics on the resonant side, and play the Pinstripes on the batter side, tuning them extra tight, and the hydraulics medium or loose. That way I could get nice crisp stick attack, along with a deeper tone. When you tighten up hydraulics, they do NOT sound dead...

 

Hm, I should try this Pinstripe/Hydraulic thing, and see how it turns out. I wander if any one in these forum has actually tried this before...

[Thexder]

After the stock heads, I tried pinstripe and wasn't happy, had bought a full set for $50, so then I focused on the 13 tom and just bought a coated emporer, sounded dead, bought a coated ambassador, that's what's on there now but I'm still not convinced about it...although it may be the best I've had on there so far.

 

Somewhere along the way I remember trying either emporer or pinstripe on the resonant side and something else on top, maybe the stock, but it didn't work out at all. I didn't try too hard with loose/tight fitting, but it didn't sound proper.

 

I'm trying to find time again to try combinations again on the 13" between all those heads, there has to be something in there....it's a Rockstar kit but I can't get the toms right. Single, Double, Coated and Clear, I've tried so far....no good to me!

 

I want a 10" and a 14" but I'm afraid to buy more toms until I figure out if I can get Rockstar to sound right. If i can't, I'll probably buy 10" and 14" of something else and eventually swap out the others for that magical something else later.

[rumblebelly]

 

Originally posted by Thexder After the stock heads, I tried pinstripe and wasn't happy, had bought a full set for $50, so then I focused on the 13 tom and just bought a coated emporer, sounded dead, bought a coated ambassador, that's what's on there now but I'm still not convinced about it...although it may be the best I've had on there so far. Somewhere along the way I remember trying either emporer or pinstripe on the resonant side and something else on top, maybe the stock, but it didn't work out at all. I didn't try too hard with loose/tight fitting, but it didn't sound proper. I'm trying to find time again to try combinations again on the 13" between all those heads, there has to be something in there....it's a Rockstar kit but I can't get the toms right. Single, Double, Coated and Clear, I've tried so far....no good to me! I want a 10" and a 14" but I'm afraid to buy more toms until I figure out if I can get Rockstar to sound right. If i can't, I'll probably buy 10" and 14" of something else and eventually swap out the others for that magical something else later.

 

 

That's why I ditched my Ludwig Rocker and got a fusion set-up for about the same price...Pacific FS!

[Old Steve]

Worship....man, you've got some tuning issues, don't ya?!?

 

Two pieces of advice...

1.) if you haven't already, download Professor Sound's Drum tuing bible. Then read it an practice tuning. It's boring and annoying, but it's a skill you need to learn. It'll also steer you toward the right types of drumheads for your kit and playing style.

 

2.) Throw your preconceived notions of what your drums are "supposed" to sound like out the window. I get the impression from reading your other posts that you may be trying to tune your drums so they sound like what you hear on CD's. (I'm making a big assumption here, so I apologize in advance if this isn't the case). Bottom line, I get compliments all the time from drummers and non-drummers alike on how my drums sound live. These same drums tuned exactly the same way sound ringy as hell and much more high pitched when played by themselves in my basement. When they're played in conjunction with amplified music, however, the higher pitches allow the drums to cut through the amps, and the "ringyness" (or "sustain" as I prefer to call it) gives each drum a distinct musical tone that can be heard over the music. When I tune my drums so they sound like CDs from where I'm playing, however, they sound like muffled cardboard from the audience's perspective, especially when the guitar amps are turned on.

 

Anyway, the point is that while your Perc Plus kit certainly isn't ever going to sound like a set of custom drums, they CAN sound pretty passible as long as they're basically round and the bearing edges are reasonably flat.

 

Like I said before, if I'm off base (won't be the first time or last) I certainly don't mean to offend you in any way, and I apologize in advance. On the other hand, learning to tune is EXTREMELY important and way too many drummers overlook this important part of playing.

[Fafnir777]

No, do not put a Pinstripe on the resonant side.

 

 

Let me give you a starting point for tuning.

 

let's work with your floor tom.

 

You'll need the following:

 

a drumkey

a pencil with an eraser

your tension watch

 

Sit on the floor, and take the legs off of your floor tom.

loosen both sides of the drum.

 

Begin with either side, and simply finger tighten the lugs in a "star" pattern.

 

Then, take one hand, and hook your thumb over the back of the lug, and hook your fingers over the rim so that you can squeeze the hoop toward the lug. then finger tighten that lug.

 

Do this at each lug.

 

Then using the key, turn each tension rod 1/4 of a turn.

 

take the pencil, and using it like a drumstick, use the eraser end to tap the head about 1" from the hoop. This will give you less "attack" than a stick.

then fine tune.

 

This will be pretty much the lowest note the drum will produce above "flapping".

 

now, flip the drum over and do the same to the other head.

 

I have a feeling that you simply aren't tuning the resonant heads high enough.

 

Pinstripes do NOT sound good tuned at their lowest ends of their ranges.

 

I use pinstripes, and I found that when I tuned them to a medium tension, with the resonant heads tuned higher- the drums really sing, and I've gotten tons of compliments on them.

 

While I haven't used the tension watch, I would try these combinations, based on my experience with various tension devices.

 

The first number is the Batter head, the second is the Resonant head.

The first and obvious method is to tune each drum so that noth heads are at the same Tension/Pitch.

 

The second, would be the one that I use.

 

1-2

2-4

3-6

4-8

5-10

6-12

etc.

 

The third technique, is to tune just the opposite of the first one. I don't suggest it, but you may like that sound. (to my ears this yields a sound similar to System of a Down's tom sound, and I think it sounds liek a cardboard box.)

 

Old Steve is right.

Forget about trying to get your drums to sound like a record. It won't happen, unless you are after a basic drumsound like Bonham's. Modern recording techniques tend to heavily alter drumsounds. By scooping out all of the midrange and adding reverb, you can make a tom sound much deeper than it actually is while recording. A tom may sound huge on tape, but it may only be an 8"x12" drum. I saw a guy use a 12" x 14" tom for a floor tom during a recording session, and on tape it sounded absolutely HUGE, even though it is smaller than my smallest tom - which is a 15")

 

So, just practice tuning, and once you get it down, write down the numbers you've chosen, that way you will be able to reproduce that sound when you want to.

 

 

Tim

[Xplora]

I was under the impression that you are supposed to use the tension watch to quickly RETURN to the previous tuning?

 

Have the drums tuned by a shop then check the skins when you get home with the watch. Then you'll have a great starting point for the next set of heads!

[WorshipMetallica]

I was thinking about having one of them tune my heads, but what if I pay them and I dont like the way they tuned them. I don't know what it is. I was playing with them for another 4 hours or so today, and I tuned the Pinstripes up higher, to where you could kinda do rolls, like rebound doubles, and tuned the resonant head up from there. I basically tuned the pinstripe head up just above where it sounds distorted and papery. Maybe Pinstripes aren't my head because when I tuned them up to that level, they ring way too much. The thing that I don't get, is that I was messing with a Maple Mapex Kit at Guitar Center today, and the toms sounded great! Which is unusual, because it seems everytime I go into Samash, Guitar Center etc. their toms are soooooo out of tune. And what scared me the most was the batters on those great sounding toms... they were Evans G1's!!!

 

So how can my Pinstripes be ringing too much, or sounding too distorted, just one of the other; and those thin ass 7mil G1's sounded awesome?

 

Oh yeah, I'm QUITE aware that I can't achieve a recorded sound on my toms. What do you all think I'm dumb or something? Haven't I asked knowledgable questions that gain you all's repect in the past year and a half? (I did ask something like how to get my bass drum to sound like Pantera's a year and half ago)

[Fafnir777]

Originally posted by WorshipMetallica I was thinking about having one of them tune my heads, but what if I pay them and I dont like the way they tuned them. I don't know what it is. I was playing with them for another 4 hours or so today, and I tuned the Pinstripes up higher, to where you could kinda do rolls, like rebound doubles, and tuned the resonant head up from there. I basically tuned the pinstripe head up just above where it sounds distorted and papery. Maybe Pinstripes aren't my head because when I tuned them up to that level, they ring way too much. The thing that I don't get, is that I was messing with a Maple Mapex Kit at Guitar Center today, and the toms sounded great! Which is unusual, because it seems everytime I go into Samash, Guitar Center etc. their toms are soooooo out of tune. And what scared me the most was the batters on those great sounding toms... they were Evans G1's!!! So how can my Pinstripes be ringing too much, or sounding too distorted, just one of the other; and those thin ass 7mil G1's sounded awesome? Oh yeah, I'm QUITE aware that I can't achieve a recorded sound on my toms. What do you all think I'm dumb or something? Haven't I asked knowledgable questions that gain you all's repect in the past year and a half? (I did ask something like how to get my bass drum to sound like Pantera's a year and half ago)

 

To be quite honest, Thin heads do sound really good.

 

No, I don't think you're dumb. Maybe you are just after the sound of thin heads, and didn't realize it. The vast majority of recordings are made with thin heads.

 

 

What kind of numbers are you using for the tension watch?

 

 

 

Tim

[Thexder]

Maybe those of us with tuning problems should record some samples of what we get and see what other people think about it, if it's confirmed bad sounding, or what seems to be wrong with it...

 

After playing around so much it may be a case of bad ears, too used to the drum and not able to hear anything good at all just like tweaking guitar effects...once I gave up on my effects for the day because I couldn't get anywhere, and when I returned to it where I left off with the settings it sounded fine once my ears reset.

 

I recorded with an SM57 being used as a temporary overhead behind the kit (above the player's head, aimed at the toms) a few weeks ago and the sound I captured seemed to accurately match what I am hearing live, so when I get a chance I think I'll try tuning it again, and if I get lost I'll post a link to an mp3 or something and get other opinions.

[WorshipMetallica]

Originally posted by Fafnir777 To be quite honest, Thin heads do sound really good. No, I don't think you're dumb. Maybe you are just after the sound of thin heads, and didn't realize it. The vast majority of recordings are made with thin heads. What kind of numbers are you using for the tension watch? Tim

 

The sheet that came with it recommended something like 60 for the floor tom batter and 65 for the resonant, and that sounded horrible. And what I don't get is that the sheet was written for Pinstripe batters, with Ambassador resonants?! I'm not really getting any certain numbers with the watch because I haven't been using, why bother? I can't find anything I like. I always thought G1s rang like hell, but they sounded perfect at the store, these damn pinstripes sure do ring though. Then again, those G1s were tuned pretty loose, but they did NOT sounds as bad as these Pinstripes do loose. Err... Time to switch back to Evans and ditch Remo forever Actually the PS3 kicks ass on bass, and isn't all that bad on snare....

 

I think it was the crisp, clean attack that made those G1's sound good, I think... Hydraulics and Pinstripes to me, have a thuddy, muddy sort of attack. Maybe I like the sound of a thinner head, but don't want the ring. Maybe I should just go get a G1 head for my 12" tom and try it out, along with a G2. I liked the Aquarian PII's when I tried them out, but everyone here said they are somewhere between Pinstripes and Hydraulics, so I got scared to buy them... mmm... Tuning Crisis.

[NoLabel]

I bought a TensionWatch and I use it on my G1's. During setup i'm able to tune my drums without disrupting the guitars. I found settings i like (and they weren't the suggested numbers) and i just revert back to those numbers and know it'll sound good.

 

The G1's on my small toms sound great. Like someone stated, they have great attack. But being so thin, i find the floor tom is hard to tune low enough without sounding papery. Before I had a pinstripe on the floor tom and i swear it sounded deeper. Still will never go back to pinstripe. I don't know if it's my snare, but i can never make the coated G1 sound right. eq4 Bass head has awesome attack and good sound.

 

Attention must still be paid to the head while adjusting values on this device. I have to work with my head making sure the lug tensions are close so i don't lose tune as soon as i play....DID THAT MAKE SENSE??

 

personal settings:

batter resonant

toms 1: 60-65 +3-5

2: 55-60 +3-5

3: =/-45 +2-3

kickdrum -45 same

 

 

snare: 72 75 (does that sound right??)

 

The TensionWatch allows me to tune my drums close enough so that RING turns to SUSTAIN!!! Old Steve if you're still watching how do get that sustain on my snare??? i am against muffling drums!

 

OH YEAH if ya want the Pro sound in your basement/room try earplugs.

[Old Steve]

Originally posted by NoLabel The TensionWatch allows me to tune my drums close enough so that RING turns to SUSTAIN!!! Old Steve if you're still watching how do get that sustain on my snare??? i am against muffling drums! OH YEAH if ya want the Pro sound in your basement/room try earplugs.

 

Agree with the earplugs idea. It'll get you close.

 

I've never actually used the tension watch, so I don't know how what to tell you as far as numbers go.

 

In general, however, the same things hold true on every drum:

Each shell has a fundimental pitch...if you stripped off all the lugs, heads and everything, and just hit the shell, you'd hear it's "note". Max sustain will generally happen when both the top and bottom heads are tuned to this same note. Thinner heads will usually also give you more sustain.

 

Snares are a little different because of the snares across the bottom head. As you tighten them, two things happen...first, they restrict the movement of the bottom head. Second, they buzz less from outside vibrations. If you crank them too tight, they'll "choke" the drum. So with a snare, getting both heads to the same note is a little bit more complicated because there's more involved. Other than that, go with thin, unmuffled heads and start with both heads tuned to the same note. Fine tune from there.

[P.Sound]

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