Drum Microphone suggestions for smaller sized gigs

[Hi-Ho Tubular]

Hi,

 

We are looking for a half decent mic setup for a medium sized kit for playing medium sized clubs. The kit has a single bass drum and about 5-6 cymbals.

 

Last gig we rented 2 Condensor mics for overheads and used a 57 on the snare with a Beta 52 in the bass, it worked really well.

 

I was thinking of something like this setup with a couple of 57s overhead. http://www.musiciansbuy.com/AKG_STD_DRUMPAK_W_D112_4_C418_W_CASE.html

 

What about this? Pretty inexpensive but how are they qaulity wise?

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/AUDIX_FUSION6_DRUM_MIC_KIT__FREE.html

[HuskerDude]

Most rooms that are big enough to need a PA for a drummer are going to have their own, and if you're using them in a smaller room, you're just gonna blow people out the doors. I don't know that it's totally neccessary to have your own mic setup.

Plus the soundguy will most likely despise you.

[seahawk]

Thr set up you had was great..........I'l tell you what i use for my smaller kit set up..

1. Kickdrum....AKG D-112

2. (2) Toms....Sennheiser e604's(2)

3. Overhead cond. mic...Supralux PRA468

4. Snare/hats......Sennheiser e604.

 

I've found this combo to be absolutly superb!......now your needs may be different and there are alot of awesome drum mics out there. but this is what i'd suggest.

 

.........DW 10X10...14X12 and 22X18

.........Ludwig.....'71 Acrolite 14X5.5

..........Paiste......Signature 20" ride,17" and 16" crashes

..........Paiste......Innovations 14" med. hats

..........Istanbul...Sultan 10" splash.

 

 

 

PEACE...

[Hi-Ho Tubular]

Originally posted by seahawk Thr set up you had was great..........I'l tell you what i use for my smaller kit set up.. 3. Overhead cond. mic...Supralux PRA468 4. Snare/hats......Sennheiser e604.

 

So you only used one overhead? What about the placement of the 604 for the hat? That's what I like about using the 57 you can jam it down in between the snare and the hat and fiddle with placement to taste.

[Old Steve]

When we're playing in a place with a house rig and soundguy, I let him put up whatever mics he's comfortable with...basically working with the assumption that he knows his system and the room best.

 

For places where we run our own rig (most of the time) it kind of varies from place to place. In smaller places, I'll often just mic the kick in order to get a little thump in the mix. In bigger places, I'll mic the whole kit, but no overheads.

 

I find that overheads can be problematic from a feedback perspective (lots of open mics on stage) and most of what they're picking up (i.e. cymbals) will just be bleeding in through the vocal mics anyway, so overheads aren't really THAT necessary.

 

I have a CAD mic pack that, while not super high quality, gets the job done just fine. For the 'bigger' shows, I mic the kick, snare, and toms all individually (actually the kick and tom mics are mounted internally on the drums, so they're always there) but don't worry about the cymbals.

 

As with anything your mileage may vary.

[zaragemca]

I find amasing listening Steve talking about miking,when he only know to ramble about Pancake,you might have a Pancake-Drum Steve.

[ulank]

Originally posted by zaragemca I find amasing listening Steve talking about miking,when he only know to ramble about Pancake,you might have a Pancake-Drum Steve.

 

YOU GO GIRL!!

 

 

 

 

Anyway, in small venues, I say nay on the OH's and just mic the kick and vox.

[Hi-Ho Tubular]

Originally posted by Old Steve When we're playing in a place with a house rig and soundguy, I let him put up whatever mics he's comfortable with...basically working with the assumption that he knows his system and the room best. For places where we run our own rig (most of the time) it kind of varies from place to place. In smaller places, I'll often just mic the kick in order to get a little thump in the mix. In bigger places, I'll mic the whole kit, but no overheads. I find that overheads can be problematic from a feedback perspective (lots of open mics on stage) and most of what they're picking up (i.e. cymbals) will just be bleeding in through the vocal mics anyway, so overheads aren't really THAT necessary.

 

Intresting advice. Yeah we are just thinking about smaller places for sure as when we do play bigger places they do have their own setup so it doesn't matter.

 

We had no problem with Feedback at all from the overheads this past weekend. Though the guitar player (me) was complaining that he couldn't get feedback from his amp and had to turn it up on stage to let it loose.... (Now why doesn't that surprise you guys!) So we probably could've gotten away with just a kick mic and snare as we did have a 5 vocal mics setup. Sounded great @ the FOTH though.

 

So what did you guys think of those mic drum kit selections in my original post? Or is it just as well to go mix and match?

[Old Steve]

 

Originally posted by zaragemca I find amasing listening Steve talking about miking,when he only know to ramble about Pancake,you might have a Pancake-Drum Steve.

 

 

Hey Zac:

 

Due to the current war footing of the International House of Pancakes, we haven't been able to look at taking in any new members. Don't worry, your daily submissions to our membership request department are being filed as usual. They'll let you know if/when your applications have been accepted.

 

As you know, we've discussed the pancake headed drum in the past. Right now it's only being brought out for ceremonial use until we fashion new tuning lugs out of sausage links.

 

Thanks for your interest.

[Old Steve]

 

Originally posted by Hi-Ho Tubular So what did you guys think of those mic drum kit selections in my original post? Or is it just as well to go mix and match?

 

 

There are a couple of schools of thought on this. MY opinion is that the AKG lower end kits are just fine for most live bar-type gigs. A lot depends on what kind of PA you're running through,etc. For example, to me it doesn't make sense to buy a $500 mic that will bring perfectly uncolored sound into an "adequate" $1000 speakers-on-a-stick PA system running in an acoustically challenged barroom. On the other hand, if you're looking for studio quality mics that will be used for full on professional digital recording, the low end ones are probably not quite up to snuff. Right tool for the right job, ya know?

 

The kit with the D112 and clip on mics is really nice. The D112 is one of the top kick mics and you'll probably be very happy with it. Will you be able to hear a difference between this kit and the mics in the cheaper set? Probably. Will it matter much once it's mixed in with the rest of the band and all of the other noise and bad acoustics of a typical bar? Maybe not.

[seahawk]

Hi-ho,

yeah i only use one overhead.....we generally play at certain venues around here. so i know the set up of the "stage".When we do play at larger places I rent another overhead mic.Like old steve said it really dependson the room. as for placing the snare e604?...i place it..just above and to the left of my snare and inbetween the snare and hats...seems to work ok.I mixed and matched because i wanted certain mics.... but a "kit of mics" by one manufacturer is fine np. CAD,Audix,Shure Sennheiser,AKG Supralux,and many other s have great kits . I havent found a bad set of drum mics yet.Hope my 2 cents helped.

[Hi-Ho Tubular]

Hope my 2 cents helped.

 

Yes everybody's .02 has helped. Thanks!! You guys are not bad for a bunch of drummers!

 

The Gig PA that we are building is based around a Mackie 1604 VLZ into a Crown CE 2000, Yamaha SPX-90 for FX with a Behringer EQ Feedback eliminator. We are using a pair of Yorkville NX-20 with NXSubs FOTH and another pair of NX200 for monitors. I appreciate everybodys suggestions. Thanks again.

[psycht]

the term "medium sized club" isn't specific enough.

 

typically, most sound guys won't use overheads. They'll mic the kick, toms & snare because the tom mics will pick up the cymbals. Also the cymbals are usually enough to cut though the PA to be heard by themselves.

[Mick LoMauro]

My personal choices as of recent for small club (200 to 500 Cap)

 

Kick - Audix D-6

Snare - ATM23HE

Rack Toms - E604

Floor Tom - D112 (left over when I got the D-6)

 

Over Heads or hat - BG4.1's shure's copy of their SM81 but with no roll off switches and there're black.

 

The Audix is far less critical of position inside the kick than the D-112.

Both are great for kick and floor tom.

 

 

Now My favorites

 

Kick - D6/ beta 91 combo

Snare Top - ATM23HE or 57

Bottom - 57 or Sm81

Toms - 421, Beta98, Audix D-4

Overheads - KSM27, AT4033, SM81

Hat - SM81, Oktava MK012

 

 

 

YMMV

Mick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:edited for typos

[Hi-Ho Tubular]

 

Originally posted by psycht the term "medium sized club" isn't specific enough.

 

 

200-300 is a medium club for me. 100 or less we won't mic the tubs. 100-200 just the kick and maybe the snare.

[zaragemca]

Well the situation for drum miking is not only related to the capacity of the club,but also the rest of the band members,becouse in the heat of the gig,everybody start crancking the volume,the singer asking more from the sound guy,etc., if you have not set up some mics in the drum you are left over with killing the drums.The equalization is important also,becouse the best mics are worthless with a back PA set up(which happen all the time).A multiple shoice for miking could be.... For DRUM KICK...-AKG D112- Sennheisers E602,or E609- Shure PG 52...For SNARE...AKG C418-, Sennheisers E903-, Shure SM 57,PG81...For OVERHEAD.....AKG C411,C416-,Sennheisers ME105,ME102,ME104,,Shure PG 81.Also Shure have a package set PGDMK4.All in relation of budget.

[ulank]

You also might want to consider about a dozen Neuman U87's for the toms, snare, and cowbells, throw, oh, 3 or 4 ribbon mics in the kick and use some V-Tech mics for overheads - $24.99 at GC I believe. Of course, you'll want to stuff blankets and pillows in all your drums since you'll be miking them anyway and don't forget to put a bunch of duct tape in strategic random places as everyone knows duct tape = tone.

[Hi-Ho Tubular]

Originally posted by ulank You also might want to consider about a dozen Neuman U87's for the toms, snare, and cowbells, throw, oh, 3 or 4 ribbon mics in the kick and use some V-Tech mics for overheads - $24.99 at GC I believe. Of course, you'll want to stuff blankets and pillows in all your drums since you'll be miking them anyway and don't forget to put a bunch of duct tape in strategic random places as everyone knows duct tape = tone.

 

And don't forget the wigged out hair and spandex with a leather vest for best drum tone!

[psycht]

Originally posted by ulank and don't forget to put a bunch of duct tape in strategic random places as everyone knows duct tape = tone.

 

yeah. i was supprised at the tonality of our vocalist when we put duct tape on him.

[Bro' FF]

 

Originally posted by Hi-Ho Tubular Hi, We are looking for a half decent mic setup for a medium sized kit for playing medium sized clubs. The kit has a single bass drum and about 5-6 cymbals. Last gig we rented 2 Condensor mics for overheads and used a 57 on the snare with a Beta 52 in the bass, it worked really well. I was thinking of something like this setup with a couple of 57s overhead. http://www.musiciansbuy.com/AKG_STD_DRUMPAK_W_D112_4_C418_W_CASE.html What about this? Pretty inexpensive but how are they qaulity wise? http://www.musiciansbuy.com/AUDIX_FUSION6_DRUM_MIC_KIT__FREE.html

 

 

I don't know your budget, but I would suggest the Audix D-series drum pack for your purposes. You get two decent SD condensors for overheads, the D-6 for kick, D-1 for snare, two D-2's for rack toms and a D-3 for floor tom (if I am remembering the "D's" correctly).

 

On a budget, I would buy the Shure Drum pack which consists of a Beta 52 kick, and three SM57's for whatever. You could use one for your snare and a pair for overheads. I have used them in this configuration before, and if you can get enough gain on the overheads they still sound great. NOT as good as a pair of quality SD condensors, but very good. Plus, IMO the Shure rim-mount hardware is the most substantial you can find in a production mount.

 

I bought a pair of Audio Technica AT 4041's for overheads; I got a very good deal used at around $300.00 for the pair and they are outstanding. Add to this an SM57 for your snare at $60.00 and a Beta 52/D112/D-6 for $125.00 (all used prices) and for under $500.00 you have a great set of drum mics. Your overheads will pick up your toms and all cymbals including ride and hats with clarity and definition. This is pretty much what I use (I have some other SM57's and mic my ride and hats seperately, but the difference is not that noticable live) and I get a fantastic, realisticly-imaged drum kit sound.

 

If you can work around the fairly large size of the SM57 they are a great mic for all drum applications; even for kick and overhead. On a budget you couldn't do better, IMO.