anybody have experience with record labels?

[Taurus]

like V2...or Sony.

 

my band is in the position to do business with one of the major labels and I've researched for years about the game, so, at this point Im willing to listen to any fly-on-the-wall opinion about any of it...general or specific.

 

 

thanks in advance.

 

x

[shredfit]

 

Originally posted by Taurus like V2...or Sony. my band is in the position to do business with one of the major labels and I've researched for years about the game, so, at this point Im willing to listen to any fly-on-the-wall opinion about any of it...general or specific. thanks in advance. x

 

 

Retain an entertainment attorney... with a track record!

[joestanman]

if you are really about to sign to a major label, why are you asking a bunch of internet strangers about it?

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by Taurus like V2...or Sony. my band is in the position to do business with one of the major labels and I've researched for years about the game, so, at this point Im willing to listen to any fly-on-the-wall opinion about any of it...general or specific. thanks in advance. x

 

 

Buy lots of K-Y jelly. As a newcomer to a major label, they will stack all the cards in their favor. If you are around long enough to prove you can sell and make them a boatload of money, they might let you have some of it. But then, if you could do that, you wouldn't need them anyway.

[gtrbass]

V2 music group has a fairly diverse roster and was launched as part of Richard Branson's Virgin Empire. V2 North America was part of the massive Sony multinational conglomerate until november 2005, when it was acquired by Sheridan Square Entertainment, owners of Artemis Records, Artemis Classics, Vanguard Classics, Triloka Records, Tone-Cool Records, Ropeadope and Compendia. The other V2 divisions remain part of the Virgin music group (Sony).

 

V2 was known for being somewhat eclectic and anglophile, like Virgin. Andy Gershon CEO of V2 North America prior to its acquisition by SSE will continue to oversee artist development, marketing, promotion, and sales of the combined frontline labels.

Gershon reports to SSE co-CEOs Joe Bianco and Anil Narang.

 

Gershon is an important guy in the music business. He started out as a temp at Capitol, later became a tour accountant, and was mentored by manager Raymond Coffer (Love and Rockets, the Cocteau Twins, the Sundays) in artist management. Gershon eventually managed the Smashing Pumpkins and was the man who made them huge. He also started Outpost records, was a VP at Virgin, and now big man at V2 North America.

 

Gershon's rep is that he has strong leadership skills, and only signs labor of love bands... He has to like the act artistically AND see the potential to make money. He tends to surround himself with underlings who are gutsy and passionate about music. V2 will take chances where others won't.

 

OK ... Why this is important. Gershon is one of the few guys in the game who's a contender to be another Ahmet Ertegun, or Clive Davis. He's smart, knows both sides of the fence, and is in creative control. There are very few dudes running the game who even care about music at all, much less know what potentially good music is. If you have a shot with V2 North America, it's worth it. Sony on the other hand is a slow moving giant and it's anybody's guess if you can survive and thrive there. Too big to give an easy thumbs up or down.

[Taurus]

thank you so much gtrbass, that's exactly the type of knowledge I was seeking.

 

I wanted to know about Gershon, though I personally know of his name just vaguely, I figured someone in the industry like him still existed.

 

joestann,

 

I'm going through the Musicians Almanac looking at what A n R guys signed which bands, had circumstances stayed the same, we would have blanketed the guys we wanted to sign with with our demo.

 

but we've essentially moved off that path and onto another and the personal info on Mr. Gershon is the type of knowledge that can be really handy in the event we meet to discuss my band.

 

I knew that V2 was an off-shoot of Virgin. One of my bandmates really wants to be with them, the other is fairly easy with whatever develops, and I want people who understand how to make history and money, not just money. So I like what I've heard so far about V2, cause the diverse line-up was a little tough to get a view of the label at first.

 

Plus, I was asked what labels would we like to have our demo submitted to...took a chance and came here to ask a simple question, cuase you just never know who knows who in this business.

 

thanks again gtrbass, much appreciated.

[Silent Heart]

Originally posted by gtrbass V2 music group has a fairly diverse roster and was launched as part of Richard Branson's Virgin Empire. V2 North America was part of the massive Sony multinational conglomerate until november 2005, when it was acquired by Sheridan Square Entertainment, owners of Artemis Records, Artemis Classics, Vanguard Classics, Triloka Records, Tone-Cool Records, Ropeadope and Compendia. The other V2 divisions remain part of the Virgin music group (Sony). V2 was known for being somewhat eclectic and anglophile, like Virgin. Andy Gershon CEO of V2 North America prior to its acquisition by SSE will continue to oversee artist development, marketing, promotion, and sales of the combined frontline labels. Gershon reports to SSE co-CEOs Joe Bianco and Anil Narang. Gershon is an important guy in the music business. He started out as a temp at Capitol, later became a tour accountant, and was mentored by manager Raymond Coffer (Love and Rockets, the Cocteau Twins, the Sundays) in artist management. Gershon eventually managed the Smashing Pumpkins and was the man who made them huge. He also started Outpost records, was a VP at Virgin, and now big man at V2 North America. Gershon's rep is that he has strong leadership skills, and only signs labor of love bands... He has to like the act artistically AND see the potential to make money. He tends to surround himself with underlings who are gutsy and passionate about music. V2 will take chances where others won't. OK ... Why this is important. Gershon is one of the few guys in the game who's a contender to be another Ahmet Ertegun, or Clive Davis. He's smart, knows both sides of the fence, and is in creative control. There are very few dudes running the game who even care about music at all, much less know what potentially good music is. If you have a shot with V2 North America, it's worth it. Sony on the other hand is a slow moving giant and it's anybody's guess if you can survive and thrive there. Too big to give an easy thumbs up or down.

 

Wow, somebody in The Music Biz forum who actually seems to know something about the the music biz.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by Silent Heart Wow, somebody in The Music Biz forum who actually seems to know something about the the music biz.

 

Yeah.....what's he doing here?!

 

 

 

All my record company experience is with a couple of indies, but I have friends who did MCA, Capricorn and Blind Pig. They all got varying degrees of hosed.

[Taurus]

hey BlueStrat; how's it going.

 

i'll use a sports analogy:

 

i think our situation equates to an N.F.L. or N.B.A. draft situation: the very moves we make in discussions with businessmen will influence the type of deal we can get. I see us in a position we're our stock can keep rising even as we've gained some leverage for our career path in the last month.

 

our pace quickened hastily 3 weeks ago and I can sense that wave of business/art logistics about to come crashing down on us and we know at some point, we will be in over our head about it and I feel I can't let the creative logistics be compromised to the point of killing the very thing that has people interested in us now.

 

We've presented a calm and cool exterior and haven't needed to say too much really.

 

But I can't assume I know anything about the game if I ever did, because I don't, I just know the art is working the way it's supposed to in effect and as such would rather work with like-minded people on the label side.

 

I would have loved to have the Greenday story of selling 70,000 CD's out of our van and have the major labels enact a bidding war on us...i guess we're not that good.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by Taurus hey BlueStrat; how's it going. i'll use a sports analogy: i think our situation equates to an N.F.L. or N.B.A. draft situation: the very moves we make in discussions with businessmen will influence the type of deal we can get. I see us in a position we're our stock can keep rising even as we've gained some leverage for our career path in the last month. our pace quickened hastily 3 weeks ago and I can sense that wave of business/art logistics about to come crashing down on us and we know at some point, we will be in over our head about it and I feel I can't let the creative logistics be compromised to the point of killing the very thing that has people interested in us now. We've presented a calm and cool exterior and haven't needed to say too much really. But I can't assume I know anything about the game if I ever did, because I don't, I just know the art is working the way it's supposed to in effect and as such would rather work with like-minded people on the label side. I would have loved to have the Greenday story of selling 70,000 CD's out of our van and have the major labels enact a bidding war on us...i guess we're not that good.

 

That sounds exciting! I'm all for anyone making it any way they can in this business. Of course, you'll want to have a good entertainment/contract attorney look over anything you're asked to sign.

 

The problem most new bands encounter when signing a r3cord deal is not knowing what questions to ask. That's what happened to my buddy who signed with Blind Pig. He made about 5 albums on indie labels, but found out that at the majors level, anything he didn't think to ask was automatically weighted in favor of the record company. He assumed because they are a large (blues) label, they would naturally devote a good sized budget to promoting his record. This wasn't necesarily the case. He set up his publishing agreement as a separate deal from his recording contract, and assumed that publishing income would not be confiscated by the record company to pay back the cost of the record. Wrong! He was led to believe he would be bundled on tours with other Blind Pig acts. Didn't happen. He had to have his own booking agency, who struggled to get him into big venues because they didn't know anyone at that level. So he got a bigger agency, only to be told that they couldn't book him because no one knew who he was. And this is after playing with Delbert McClinton, going on Delbert's Blues Cruise two years in a row, and doing stuff with Tommy Castro. He told me that if I ever had an oportunity to sign with a major, take a few days to think of every question I could think of to ask wherein money was involved, and write them down, and get everything, EVERYTHING, in writing.

 

best of luck to you. Sounds like you're on your way to some good things!

[Blackwatch]

Taurus...

 

There was a time when I would have been so very envious of you. But now I just worry for you. Do you have anyone looking out for your interests yet? Get someone soon and have them start filling you in on how the business works.

 

The Best of Luck to you....

[gtrbass]

Bottom line: Having been in three label deals (Geffen, CBS/Sony, and an indie) in my career, plus involvement with countless other situations, I know from experience it is a slippery slope.

 

There are two sides to the coin:

 

Signing with a legit label - You get the benefit of financial resources to develop and market a product. Sometimes you get real expertise from people who know how to successfully launch an artist and maximize their potential popularity. Sometimes you get a bunch of buffoons who will kill your career out of the gate in spite of how great you are. There are always politics involved that you have little of no knowledge of and absolutely no control over.

 

When you sign with a label they will take advantage of your naivete and exploit your desire to "make it". It is a matter of luck whether it will be financially worth it to you. I know of many instances where name artists have sold millions of units only to have creative interpretation of their contracts and "creative accounting" provide leverage for the label to essentially not pay them a dime.

 

A label deal does enable an artist to tour, sell merch and eventually make money ... if they sell records and tickets.

 

1) Assume you will never make a dime in royalties off your records. Whatever you can siphon on the advance is all you'll see. Royalties are generally for people with "sir" in front of their name... like sir Elton John, or sir Paul Mcartney.

 

2) Give away as little as possible up front regarding rights to publishing, merch, your name, your website, etc. For every point where they wish to assume control of a piece of the financial pie, up the advance ante significantly. They will either let it go or give you the money.

 

3) The more upfront money you get them to invest in the better. The more financially committed they are to the act in the contract, the more committed they will HAVE to be in making the act successful in order to see a return on their investment. They have no choice. If you have two similar bands on the roster, but only the resources to market one of them, you'll see which one you will lose the least amount of money from if you have to blow them off. They could even be the "better band". Label politics aren't about who's good or deserving, they're about where the most money is ... for the label.

 

4) Publishing income is primarily from airplay, and film/TV. It is essentially a pyramid scheme. Publishing is only significantly lucrative for those with hits, or songs that get lots of airplay. Bands who sell records and concert tix without any significant airplay, don't see as much money from publishing but make it up in other ways if their mgmt is smart and responsible.

 

5) No one does anything for free ... neither should you.

 

Forming you own label and DIY - While it sounds like a good idea, it takes a keen business sense, thorough knowledge of the business, and more startup capital than a typical musician has or even thinks they need. The artists who stand the best chance of success going this route are often people who have been chewed up and spit out by the label machine. That's where the "name" credibility and past exposure benefit them. Artists like Aimee Mann for example can do 50,000 units through their own label and make a living. Certain '70's or '80's bands like BOC and The Fixx do that and survive decently.

 

If you're a young unknown band and want to put out your own CD to get more widely knwon, then do it. (Just realize that it's today's equivalent of having a Demo.) Go to discmakers, get it on CD Baby, consign it to the local record shops and sell it at gigs, but don't fool yourself that it will make you a great deal of money. Don't think you can or will get distro through a real distributor unless you have a proven track record of sales in the thousands of units and the money to market it properly.

 

The tried and true rule of releasing DIY indie music is to market stuff that is far off the beaten path. If your music sounds like what's on the radio, chances are you will not be able to sell a DIY record very well. Why? Because the consumer most likely to buy your CD is a passive consumer. He/She won't usually go searching the net or recod shops looking for the unknown. You stand a better chance of selling at shows than you do off a website.

 

If your band is in an underground genre (hardcore metal act, or a jam band, or a Prog act) you actually stand a better chance. Obviously the audience is much smaller, but it's full of active consumers who are collectors, searching specifically for obscure CD's in that genre. Don't believe me? The top selling title at CD baby is a children's music record by Dan Zanes.

 

Whichever route you take, get good representation, which means NOT the guy at Jacoby and Meyers.

[Taurus]

some 4 years ago I would come to these boards rather green to things but full of enough hubris to think I could make it.

 

we struggled in the bar/club scene in the Bay Area and saw on HC once someone mention, "a good demo can get a band pretty far..." in the business.

 

band logistics and circumstance force my partner and I to sans the live-band route and come up with a Demo. We took our time with the music living the irony we don't have much time left to figure this {censored} out.

 

chance meeting with a music icon eventually has him listening to our demo where he quickly decides to invest much time and capital from his end because he sees the big potential.

 

He wants to take our near grade-A pro sounding home demo and bring it to the A++ studio mix it has to be in order to be taken seriously by the labels, which is where it's our choice to figure out which label we want to present a full-length album which in all likelihood will have a seperate publishing deal go with it.

 

ggt. bbl.

[gtrbass]

What genre of music is it?

 

Did you already do paper with the "music icon"?

[shredfit]

It is truly amazing the wealth of knowlege and experience that some people (gtrbass and BlueStrat) share on this forum. I MUST wonder what my situation would be like if I knew or had access to this knowlege when I signed a label deal in the early 90's???

 

Perhaps we would have NEVER signed!

 

What I mean is that they present views of the business from the artists point of view(and really hit the nail on the head)... as opposed to from and attorny's point of view(in which we were represented in the early 90's).

 

Cheers guys!

[Taurus]

ah geez, gtrbass, said music icon is probably a name you would recognize. He's been in the business for over 30 years with 2000 platinum records to his credit.

 

Our deal with him is cut and dry at the moment, for there can be no gaurentees until all has manifested. Once the album is done is when he will pitch it around. Best of my knowledge at present, Anything binding with him falls under a seperate publishing deal apart from whatever label situation develops.

 

The band is an alternative rock 4-piece (2 gits, 1 bass, drummer) with art-rock leanings...most of our current sound is against the grain of what's popular at the moment, but meaty enough to get at least one v.i.p. figuring maybe we can bring back this type of music to the mainstream.

 

simply put: the big idea is to feed us to the machine. I know that's it. We can play lights out and are soft on the eyes. The figures being thrown around is Monopoly money to me, it doesnt seem real. Im just as concerned about being asked to do a cover song when we're not a cover band and {censored} like that.

 

We've got a another month till the album is complete. I don't really know how long the mix will take, but from this point we probably still have 2 months untill contract phase.

 

thanks for your responses fellas...things were lightning fast for a few days and once the dizziness was done, our world changed and now our thinking has to.

[gtrbass]

"Monopoly money" the straight up carrot used in such situations. Just never forget that it's all hype. If you need a suggestion for legal representation PM me and I can possibly point you in the right direction.