Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by TimeKeeper310 dude!!...aren't you comprehending what Art's been trying to tell you?.... No, the idea that hitting my cymbals less hard and maybe hitting them at a different angle is way over my head. Perhaps, numbnuts, you're not comprehending MY question. REGARDLESS of any playing techniques used or how hard someones hitting a cymbal or the angle at which it's hit or what have you, there should be discernible differences in durability among cymbals due to a) thickness b) metals/alloys used c) how they're manufactored d) other factors I'm sure. It's a simple question, which lines (if any) are known for being more durable. And the reason I like my cymbals loud isn't for me to damage my ears, it's because nice loud, washy cymbals compliment my bands sound real well. Cymbals generally aren't mic'ed up in smaller to mid-sized venues. Just the bass and snare, and toms if you're lucky! I'll say again, I like my crashes explosive and full and loud and violent. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with trying to do a little research on cymbal lines. Perhaps Miss Molly liked your less explosive crashes because she's Miss Molly and not a hardcore band. If I were gigging with Miss Molly or a non hardcore/rock/metal band I wouldn't want my crashes to blow everyone out of the water either. DUDE !!!!1!1!!!1! I HEARD A CUSTUMS ARE THE BEST. MOUNT THEM PERFECTLY FLAT AND HIT THEM AS HARD AS YOU WANT DUDE. THEYL NEVER BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !111!1 Teabag my nuts. I never requested an "invincible" cymbal. Do I really need to go over this again. I'm not some kid going WHAM BAM all day just because I like to hit cymbals hard. I mean, perhaps I'm just posting in the wrong place? You're not just a bunch of old guys who think any loud music = buncha random noise and thrashing of instruments right? Perhaps your prostate flare-ups have you on edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArtVandelay Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by Kevin K Is A OK No, the idea that hitting my cymbals less hard and maybe hitting them at a different angle is way over my head. Perhaps, numbnuts, you're not comprehending MY question. REGARDLESS of any playing techniques used or how hard someones hitting a cymbal or the angle at which it's hit or what have you, there should be discernible differences among cymbals due to a) thickness b) metals/alloys used c) how they're manufactored d) other factors I'm sure. It's a simple question, which lines (if any) are known for being more durable. You're clearly not reading what's been written wo I think this may the be the last tim eI explain because I don't think I've been stubborn or argumentative. I never said play softer - in fact not everone here has. Practice proper technique instead. Many of us have stated things relevant to point A) thickness. I've told you about different alloys (or not different alloys). Are you reading or trying to get someone to provide the answer you want so you can continue to punish cymbals without admitting something might be your doing. And the reason I like my cymbals loud isn't for me to damage my ears, it's because nice loud, washy cymbals compliment my bands sound real well. Cymbals generally aren't mic'ed up in smaller to mid-sized venues. Just the bass and snare, and toms if you're lucky! I'll say again, I like my crashes explosive and full and loud and violent. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with trying to do a little research on cymbal lines. For the 3rd time, playing loud doesn't mean you have to lay into your cymbals with a straight on smash. Trust me - I'm not out to make you look like a fool - you can play with proper technique and the cymbals will be just as loud. Perhaps Miss Molly liked your less explosive crashes because she's Miss Molly and not a hardcore band. If I were gigging with Miss Molly or a non hardcore/rock/metal band I wouldn't want my crashes to blow everyone out of the water either. There are plenty of metal drummers on the board who don't seem to have a problem with breaking cymbals as much as you seem to. Teabag my nuts. Thoroughly uncalled for. What has anyone said that's deserved this response? Please grow up a little. I mean, perhaps I'm just posting in the wrong place? You're not just a bunch of old guys who think any loud music = buncha random noise and thrashing of instruments right? Perhaps your prostate flare-ups have you on edge? Actually, Aqualung is 17 and I'm 34. My prostate is fine and I'm sure his is too - but I don't plan on checking for myself. Please read what people are saying and accept advice gracefully even when it's not what you want to hear. The people on this board love to help each other out and give generally good advice. If you can't accept what we have to say in a mature way then we won't miss you when you stop posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimeKeeper310 Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Ok..I will quote you, word-for-word...."Apparently, if you slam them for a long time they eventually break".....So, yes, you are correct.....you won't find an answer to your question.....continuous bashing techniques, will eventually cause breakage.... First..yes, I've been called to fill a gig for Ms. Molly....but, my band plays nothing but ROCK....so, you're not playing anything that I haven't played....I've yet to break a cymbal......Second....who made the rule, that states, that you can't use a mic, that will pick up your cymbals.....you should be the boss of your kitThird....save your money from every gig you play...you'll need it to replace your cymbals..... and, last....yes, now my nuts are numb, from you repeating your question, after you've answered it yourself, from the start of this thread....you continuously bash your cymbals, they will break... you've gotten some good answers, from some experienced drummers here.....it's why I come here..they know what they're talking about..... maybe, because you are so 'big' in stature, that the rest of your band, are just afraid to tell you, that you're bashing your cymbals too hard, for fear that you might beat them up?..LOLPeace, dude....but, don't be irritated....sorry you can't accept anything these guys have offered to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Goodness. If I didn't want advice I wouldnt' post a thread silly! (er, numbnuts) I was just a bit surprised by the overwhelmingly negative, sarcastic response. I thought cymbal breaking would be much more common and worthy of discussion. I'm open to advice and new ideas, just not when presented in a negative, sarcastic, or degrading tone. I mean, the very idea of repeatedly banging one object against another object is GOING to cause those to give out eventually, regardless of any other factors. I'm aiming to prolong the life of my cymbals while hopefully still maintaining the same sound. That doesn't mean I'm not listening to what people have to say. As soon as I get some new cymbals I will try some different techniques and maybe switch over to wood-tipped sticks (I assume those would be easier on the cymbals..) Because I know nothing is worth slicing through all those cymbals like that. I was just wondering if I was maybe picking the wrong brand or something. If I weren't open to other people's ideas I wouldn't have made a thread here in the first place. I'm just not open to people being degrading because someone plays a different style than they do. And of course there are experienced drummers here, that's why I came, to get some knowledge. But apparently they're dicks! But, because cymbals cost a ridiculous amount of money, I'm seeking advice because I want to do everything in my power to get the most bang for my buck. I think that's OK right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by Kevin K Is A OK And of course there are experienced drummers here, that's why I came, to get some knowledge. But apparently they're dicks! But, because cymbals cost a ridiculous amount of money, I'm seeking advice because I want to do everything in my power to get the most bang for my buck. I think that's OK right? Well, really, the only thing that is in your power is to not break {censored}. These folks aren't being dicks-- they're just disagreeing with your factually incorrect statement that there is ever a time where the music demands that you break your gear.Seriously-- a cymbal can only get so loud, and it gets as loud as it is going to get before it reaches the point where you're damaging it.But if you must break your stuff -- and there are certainkly times to set a guitar on fire, eh-- I would say, don't buy for longevity, buy for cheapness, becasue you're goning to break them anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Heh. Maybe just get a pile of B8s to slam through? [tries again]just seeing if maybe any specific cymbal lines were known for being more durable than others[/tries again]k thnx bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cheeseadiddle Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Ask him where he got his? Your techniques probably are very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mparsons Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Instead of making your cymbals that much louder, why don't you make everything else a little bit quieter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimeKeeper310 Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Couple of questions, just out of curiosity.... How often are the cymbals cracking on you?.........and, is it one in particular, or just randomly, are your crashes breaking?..... Maybe, even if you are comfortable with your techniques, perhaps, try a bit of adjustment'positioning of 'said' cymbal?....not meaning, that you move it, or re-locate it....(and i think it's been mentioned), but, change the angle of the cymbal(s) that break the most? and, lastly...do as I do, as I'm STILL always trying to figure out what works for others.......go to the bands' sites?....or research other drummers, playing similar music styles, that you play.....many of the 'known' drummers, will list most of the gear they use, and usually list the gear, they 'truly' use, and not just as an 'endorsement'.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimeKeeper310 Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Kevin.....you..OK?...LOL..seriously....you say, that 'generally' cymbals aren't mic'd, due to the fact you're playing smaller venures?.....yet, the venues are 'small' enuff, that your stage volume, requires you to play your cymbals hard enuff to break them regularly... C'mon....mic them a couple times, try it out...at least for one gig...for me, PLEASE?.... I'd rather see you spend $100 on a mic..ok, $125 for mic and stand...than to keep dropping all that cash on cymbals?and ditto, on the comment about burning a guitar....kick an amp over every once in a while?...or toss a beer bottle into one?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by cheeseadiddle Ask him where he got his? Your techniques probably are very similar. For real. He's rocking out! Can't stop won't stop. Instead of making your cymbals that much louder, why don't you make everything else a little bit quieter?I take pride in powering through 5150s! It's a good thought for rehearsal, but I kinda go full out all the time to keep my stamina/endurance up (and it's just fun) and the band follows suit. I mean, we're a hardcore band, so there's no real dynamics. Just too loud. How often are the cymbals cracking on you?....... ..and, is it one in particular, or just randomly, are your crashes breaking?..... Everybody's breaking. Crashes, ride, hihat... But they were all AAX's, that's why I thought maybe it could be the line. But I knew all along that slamming on them the way I did was a factor, but it's still worth checking out my opions). I'll grow up one day. I just turned 22 yesterday. Soon enough I won't care about how wILD AND CRAZY DOOOD I smash my drums. Maybe, even if you are comfortable with your techniques, perhaps, try a bit of adjustment'positioning of 'said' cymbal?....not meaning, that you move it, or re-locate it....(and i think it's been mentioned), but, change the angle of the cymbal(s) that break the mostYep definitely going to experiment with that. The crappy thing is that I live in an apartment and my drums are in a practice space so I gotta drive over there and stuff. This week is a busy one so I won't have much time. I mean, I'll be honest, I don't want to change my technique, but it's inevitable. Because at this point my options are the Z's and the Rudes and even those, I know, aren't magic cymbals. They'll probably last longer, but the tradeoff is they sound like somebody replaced my ears with assholes. And of course they respond like a 3 toed sloth on barbiturates because they're so thick. and, lastly...do as I do, as I'm STILL always trying to figure out what works for others.......go to the bands' sites?....or research other drummers, playing similar music styles, that you play.....many of the 'known' drummers, will list most of the gear they use, and usually list the gear, they 'truly' use, and not just as an 'endorsement'..........No doubt. Whenever I'm at shows I'm always watching the drummer. Even the sloppiest punk drummers to the blast-beating metal jackhammers have interesting ideas. My favorite and most influential drummer is Danny Carey. I do as he does! Except I can't afford Paiste Signature cymbals. There IS NOT a better sounding crash than a Paiste Signature Full Crash. Not the new Signature or the Reflector whatevers, the regular old Signature. For some reason, they're the most expensive too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by TimeKeeper310 Kevin.....you..OK?...LOL.. seriously....you say, that 'generally' cymbals aren't mic'd, due to the fact you're playing smaller venures?.....yet, the venues are 'small' enuff, that your stage volume, requires you to play your cymbals hard enuff to break them regularly... C'mon....mic them a couple times, try it out...at least for one gig...for me, PLEASE?.... I'd rather see you spend $100 on a mic..ok, $125 for mic and stand...than to keep dropping all that cash on cymbals? and ditto, on the comment about burning a guitar....kick an amp over every once in a while?...or toss a beer bottle into one?.... The shows we play generally have 4 or more bands and you just kinda jump on and jump off. They mic the bass drum and snare, toms if you're lucky. They don't really mess with overheads with the drums. I'm just a slammer, but that doesn't mean I'm immature or a crappy player or anything like that. So I gotta deal with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimeKeeper310 Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 oh, hell no!!..never suggested you were immature!!....{censored}, I only play the drums for 2 reasons.....for the love of rock and roll...and for "THE KID IN ME" Hell YES!!! and, dude!!!...I'm 44!! but, no, my band probably doesn't play stuff as hevvy as you(the rest of my band aren't as young-spirited as I am!).....we play nugent...ac/dc....g-n-r....judas priest.....van halen...C.C.R.....bad company....clapton.....skynyrd.....audioslave....creed..... but, MY personal listening preferences, are much heavier, than the music I play with these guys....just, where I live, there's NOT a huge 'market', for the heavier stuff.....all the clubs around here, desire bands, who can play more 'radio-oriented' rock....something that their patrons can dance to, making them thirsty, causing them to SPEND MORe MONEY!!!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 I gotcha. As long as it's fun man. I bet that stuff's a lot of fun to play on drums. Like getting to play the intro to Paradise City? I'm trying to talk my band into doing that for an intro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mparsons Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 ....judas priest..... HE! IS! THE PAINKILLER! THIS! IS! THE PAINKILLER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mparsons Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 I take pride in powering through 5150s! They'll probably last longer, but the tradeoff is they sound like somebody replaced my ears with assholes. If you keep playing like that your ears might as well be replaced with assholes. Tell me you at least wear ear protection for practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kabaalk Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Here's something new: Sticks. Are you using monster marching snare sticks, or wittle 7A's? I did a number on a 16" B8 thin crash with my 2B's. For cymbals that cheap, I just keep my bolt cutters handy - a crack can't continue of it's now a circle! Here's something old: Walk into a store and play the cymbals. Buy what sounds good to you. It's what everyone else does, and what everyone always recommends. There's nothing wrong with going in with an idea, but to walk out with a set of cymbals all from the exact same line seems absurd. The likelihood of all those AAX's being exactly what sounded best for your kit and playing is unimaginably small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cheeseadiddle Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by Kabaalk Here's something old: Walk into a store and play the cymbals. Buy what sounds good to you. It's what everyone else does, and what everyone always recommends. There's nothing wrong with going in with an idea, but to walk out with a set of cymbals all from the exact same line seems absurd. The likelihood of all those AAX's being exactly what sounded best for your kit and playing is unimaginably small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sherman22 Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 either because you hit too hard or it is just worn out. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sherman22 Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Whats up with thin brass disks breaking after years and years of being beaten on a daily basis. Beats me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gcdrummer Posted December 6, 2006 Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 I'm gonna lean more toward technique than how hard they are being hit. I have 5 broken cymbals on my wall of shame. All but one was on the left side which means that both my left and right hand were hitting them. Knowing that my left is weaker, it has to be the technique of my left hand. Not only that, three of them came from the same location on the kit. Granted all of my cymbals were over 5 years old, and a few nearly 15 years old. My broken cymbal pile... 15" Zildjian K dark crash (still sounds fine) 17" Zildjian K dark brilliant crash (only right side cymbal) 16" Zildjian A medium crash 10" Zildjain A splash 17" Zildjian A Custom Projection crash (still sounds fine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 6, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2006 Originally posted by sherman22 Whats up with thin brass disks breaking after years and years of being beaten on a daily basis. Beats me... I'm filing a class action lawsuit. Who's with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kevin K Is A OK Posted December 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2006 Judging by the sound samples online I want either: An 18 Inch Sabian AA 18 Inch Medium Crash and a 19 Inch AA Rock Crash or An 18 Inch Paiste 2002 Power Crash and a 19 Inch 2002 Rock Crash Gotta get to the store! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trackman Posted December 7, 2006 Members Share Posted December 7, 2006 A cymbal can only be so loud... When you reach the peak volume with a cymbal, hitting it harder will only cause damage ... Using harsh cleaners will also dry out the oils in the medal and eventually make them brittle... Trying to go thru the cymbal with a stick to obtain more volume is deadly to a cymbal... Snapping or poping the cymbal with the stick would be better for the cymbal ... If you want more volume get a bigger diameter cymbal (which will also cause a slightly higher pitch)... If you want higher pitch ,get a thicker cymbal... Also, buffing and wearing down the lathing grooves will cause a cymbal to be warmer in tone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agogobill Posted December 7, 2006 Members Share Posted December 7, 2006 I suggest getting some #6 rebar. That'll get ya a real nice clash. Getcha some Kevlar drumheads too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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