So, I shouldn't be doing this...

[Dark Slide]

... but I figured a couple of you might want to check this out.

 

We're finally back in the studio. We are slow as {censored} putting out music, but we found a local place to record and so far, we're pretty happy. I'm going to put up this link to a full song for you guys to check out, but I am going to pull it before too long, because I shouldn't be doing it. It's raw, un-mixed, un-mastered and we're actually going in Friday, I believe, to re-record guitars including a clean track for re-amping during mastering, at the request of the engineer.

 

Anyway, feedback in always welcome. I know the bass is weak, we have some phase issues and obviously it shows up hard here because all mics are up, being pre-mix.

 

http://hatredalive.com/nicks/drums/carnivorousimpulsefull.mp3

 

I am going to pull that before too long, but I'll leave a sample up... here's a video of us playing it live.

 

 

 

-Nick-

[cearleywine]

not a fan of the vocals but your drumming is pretty bad ass. Nice work.

[BeakerArk]

nice drumming. . . tell Cookie Monster he should enunciate a bit more clearly.

[vinniewannabe]

I love the guitar/bass drum rhythms right before the vocal part starts.

 

Generally speaking this genre of music has "clicky"-sounding bass drums....which are triggered...I wish there were some kind of middle ground between the clicky sounding bass drum and a more natural "thud" sound. I thought your toms sounded great and natural, but then it goes to the clicky bass drum. I wish it blended in a little better between the two sounds. Maybe it's just my PC speakers...they don't give the bass drum justice sometimes.

 

I loved the stand alone guitar chord when the band stopped...nice touch and nice chord!.

 

I like the end drumming phrases...with the short blast part, back to the double time, short blast, double time etc etc...the rhythm between the singer and you was cool, except the singer sounded like he was out of time during the first part of that section...then he caught up for the second pass. I would sync up that first section because it makes for a kinda interesting poly-rhythmic thing between you two guys.

 

The song is short and sweet and doesn't go on and on, which I think is good. Say what ya gotta say and end it. Overall, it was cool.

[Dark Slide]

 

I love the guitar/bass drum rhythms right before the vocal part starts. Generally speaking this genre of music has "clicky"-sounding bass drums....which are triggered...I wish there were some kind of middle ground between the clicky sounding bass drum and a more natural "thud" sound. I thought your toms sounded great and natural, but then it goes to the clicky bass drum. I wish it blended in a little better between the two sounds. Maybe it's just my PC speakers...they don't give the bass drum justice sometimes. I loved the stand alone guitar chord when the band stopped...nice touch and nice chord!. I like the end drumming phrases...with the short blast part, back to the double time, short blast, double time etc etc...the rhythm between the singer and you was cool, except the singer sounded like he was out of time during the first part of that section...then he caught up for the second pass. I would sync up that first section because it makes for a kinda interesting poly-rhythmic thing between you two guys. The song is short and sweet and doesn't go on and on, which I think is good. Say what ya gotta say and end it. Overall, it was cool.

 

 

Nice. Awesome feedback. Thank you. The bass drum issue is being addressed and these are not the final sounds that are going to be used, specifically for the reason you mentioned. The problem is finding a kick sound that is natural, but doesn't get muddy at 18-20 notes a second. Generally if there is much resonance at all, it turns into a mess at those speeds. I THINK the new sound I have is a bit more on track, but it's definitely a big debate.

 

You're right about the vocals. This is the way he originally sang it, but for some reason just before we went into the studio he decided to change it to something else. When he sang it in the studio we told him we didn't like it and asked him to go back to this way. Unfortunately he hadn't been practicing it this way and was having a hard time staying on time. Pretty sure we're going to redo the ending section. Really happy to hear that you actually listened that closely and had such awesome feedback. Thanks a ton.

[HottKarl]

Dig it. Your doubles work is, as usual, pretty {censored}ing flawless.

[2xBass]

Dig it. Your doubles work is, as usual, pretty {censored}ing flawless.

 

That's one way to say it...

[Dark Slide]

 

Dig it. Your doubles work is, as usual, pretty {censored}ing flawless.

 

 

Thank you. I actually don't play doubles in this song though. These are singles. As far as them being flawless, I quantized the kicks to clean up some minor issues - obviously big enough issues for me to notice and to decide to fix them - but minor nonetheless... which is one of the reasons I posted the live video, so people could compare the live drums to the recorded drums. The live video is actually faster, and still tight.

 

Quantization certainly brings up a debate, but my feeling is that I'm making music, not trying to impress anyone. If I flam a note or two live, no one notices because it comes and is gone, but if I flam a note when recording, it's there forever. I'd rather have the recording clean, but only as long as I can actually play it live. If I posted a video of me playing it live and it was flam city, then it would be lame to record it and fix it. I know I can play it faster and still keep it clean, however, so I have no issues with it.

 

I know there are a lot of people who say that small things like that are what make music what it is, but for me, it's just an annoyance. When I recorded Maggot Society, which is somewhere around 75bpm faster than this song, I didn't quantize anything... but I also punched in EIGHT times and spent a lot of studio time and frustration getting it perfect. I'd rather save my time and $$ and just click a few times on the computer.

 

For reference, this is Maggot Society, which is 16ths at 300bpm exactly how I played it. No quantization. 8 Punch-ins, about 45 minutes of wasted time and extreme frustration.

 

xqUZhsNVym0

 

Was it worth it? Um... well, I am proud to say that I did it I guess. Looking back, though, I would have been just as happy from a musical standpoint if I had just edited it, and music takes precedence over my ego any day. My wallet and blood-pressure also would have appreciated it.

[narwhal13]

The drums are great. And while this music is not my favorite, I still can't get into teh vocals. I can't help it....everytime I hear people sing like this I fall off my chair laughing!

 

Sorry. Just don't get this singing style. The drums do kick ass though!

[WillyRay]

Dark,

 

This comes with the usual caveat that I would never, ever, under ANY circumstances listen to this music for my own enjoyment.

 

My thoughts: As usual, your playing is very precise. I think your assessment of quantize or not is really valid. You've got the hands and feet to play it, no question. It's your recording. You want to drag and drop a few notes, I say it's your prerogative. For me, in a jazz recording, it would be a problem aesthetically and in respect to the tradition... but in my opinion, when it comes to this kind of deal, context is everything.

 

My biggest negative feedback is what you already know: The sounds aren't right. Bass drum, for sure, and I'm hearing a big, heavy dry ride that I'm not liking either. The whole thing is electronic drums, right? If not, it's just the way the mix is working... what you said about the mics and all that stuff. Seems like simple fixes to me, too.

 

Overall, sounds to me like you've got the nucleus of a good track there. Good work.

 

/w

[Dark Slide]

Dark, This comes with the usual caveat that I would never, ever, under ANY circumstances listen to this music for my own enjoyment. My thoughts: As usual, your playing is very precise. I think your assessment of quantize or not is really valid. You've got the hands and feet to play it, no question. It's your recording. You want to drag and drop a few notes, I say it's your prerogative. For me, in a jazz recording, it would be a problem aesthetically and in respect to the tradition... but in my opinion, when it comes to this kind of deal, context is everything. My biggest negative feedback is what you already know: The sounds aren't right. Bass drum, for sure, and I'm hearing a big, heavy dry ride that I'm not liking either. The whole thing is electronic drums, right? If not, it's just the way the mix is working... what you said about the mics and all that stuff. Seems like simple fixes to me, too. Overall, sounds to me like you've got the nucleus of a good track there. Good work. /w

 

Thanks, I think we're on the same page when it comes to editing tracks. My goal first and foremost is to create music that I am happy with, my ego can handle the hit that I'll take by knowing I editing a thing or two here and there

 

I am actually in the process from switching from Drumkit From Hell to Superior drummer 2.0 which has an even more amazing set of drum sounds. They took 6 hours for each drum, something like 12 levels of velocity, 6 strokes at each velocity with each hand. I would have it done already, but when I switched drum programs, it messed some of the trigger inputs up. IE: I would hit my crash and get a ride sound... so it's taking a little bit of work to figure it out.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate constructive criticism from everyone, especially those who don't listen to this kind of music. I am trying to not get locked into the standard frame of sound that many drummers of this genre do. Overplaying, boring, stock blast-roll-blast song compositions, and hearing from people who listen to different kinds of music (as I do) helps. I'll post again at some point once the new samples are added in.

[Cross Eyed Mary]

The kick isn't really bothering me. It's one of those things to be expected. Saying "I wish that death metal drummers kicks were boomier" is like saying "I wish Bonhams kicks were a bit punchier". It's a product of the element.

 

And yeah, the ride starts to get a tad annoying, but that kinda comes down to taste, another product of the element. I wouldn't expect a 22" K Con in there.

 

Maybe it's just me, but the vocals seem to be drowned out just a tad? All the instruments sound high and sharp, and his vocals are about as low as they come, maybe raise them a tad?

 

Besides that i'd just be repeating what's already been said.

[D Carroll]

As usual, you are a fantastic drummer. Not my taste in music, but, you are a terrific drummer, I like how you don't rely on blast beats like a bunch of people now days.

[WillyRay]

I appreciate constructive criticism from everyone, especially those who don't listen to this kind of music. I am trying to not get locked into the standard frame of sound that many drummers of this genre do. Overplaying, boring, stock blast-roll-blast song compositions, and hearing from people who listen to different kinds of music (as I do) helps. I'll post again at some point once the new samples are added in.

 

Yep. You've got the right idea. That kind of attitude transcends style. The process: 1.) Learn the tradition from the earliest point you can through the current innovators. 2.) Find a new thing and go with it. 3.) Get unyieldingly lucky. 4.) Profit!

 

 

/w

[Wellhungarian]

Here's just a couple of ideas.

 

For the first two measures try riding on your floor tom and playing the rhythm with your left hand on the toms to give it a darker more melodic beginning, then it might give the third measure of 16th note triplets on the BD more effect to the listener. Then according to my ears the fourth measure is just like the first, then the fifth and six are different and the singer starts singing on the seventh. Maybe try since the fourth measure is like the first, make the fifth the same and then play two measures that are like the original fifth and have the singer begin singing on 1 of the eighth measure? I think the listener likes to hear a little repetition, it breeds familiarity or what is often referred to as hooks.

 

What would really bring the tune together is a little cowbell though.:poke:

[Dark Slide]

 

Here's just a couple of ideas. For the first two measures try riding on your floor tom and playing the rhythm with your left hand on the toms to give it a darker more melodic beginning, then it might give the third measure of 16th note triplets on the BD more effect to the listener. Then according to my ears the fourth measure is just like the first, then the fifth and six are different and the singer starts singing on the seventh. Maybe try since the fourth measure is like the first, make the fifth the same and then play two measures that are like the original fifth and have the singer begin singing on 1 of the eighth measure? I think the listener likes to hear a little repetition, it breeds familiarity or what is often referred to as hooks. What would really bring the tune together is a little cowbell though.:poke:

 

 

Ahh, now this is something I can relate to. This has been a huge point of debate for us and I am on the same side of reasoning as you are, that having a 'hook' is important. Having something as simple as a CHORUS is something I have been suggesting we try for something like, 6 years now. Unfortunately, the other guys in my band, specifically my guitarist (who writes all the music) is into music that doesn't have your standard song composition. My singer is the same way. He prefers to write his lyrics is more of a story format, ala Cannibal Corpse.

 

I'm not sure about a cowbell, regardless of what Mr. Walken might need... I've certainly threatened to use one a few times. I have been considering adding some timbales to my kit though.

[towndog]

I guess I've officially crossed over to the Geezer's guild.

 

After the vocals started I could only stand to listen to a few seconds.

 

Musically, what little I heard sounded fine, I just can't deal with those vocals.

[Wellhungarian]

 

Ahh, now this is something I can relate to. This has been a huge point of debate for us and I am on the same side of reasoning as you are, that having a 'hook' is important. Having something as simple as a CHORUS is something I have been suggesting we try for something like, 6 years now. Unfortunately, the other guys in my band, specifically my guitarist (who writes all the music) is into music that doesn't have your standard song composition. My singer is the same way. He prefers to write his lyrics is more of a story format, ala Cannibal Corpse. I'm not sure about a cowbell, regardless of what Mr. Walken might need... I've certainly threatened to use one a few times. I have been considering adding some timbales to my kit though.

 

 

:cool:I think a high pitched tone like timbales used melodically at the beginning would give the tune some nice variation.

 

Here's what you might try to do to convince your bandmates on song structure and hooks is to write one tune the "standard" way and put it up on your MySpace or wherever you try to sell your music and let your fans decide.

[Wellhungarian]

 

I guess I've officially crossed over to the Geezer's guild. After the vocals started I could only stand to listen to a few seconds. Musically, what little I heard sounded fine, I just can't deal with those vocals.

 

 

I hear you, but I think I've come to realize that you have to look beyond the vocals in this type of music. It seems to me if you have the skills, it's a drummers based type of music. You can let it all hang out.

[Carminemw]

OK here goes...if you can stand a critique from an old fart.

 

This is not my cup o tea, but I'm gonna try and express myself with an open mind. Dark, you are a stellar technician, but to me, this whole tune is fighting each other in some aspects. To me it sounds a little disjunct...you're blasting away while the others are laid back, and they're blasting away and you're pretty stable. They are not in flux together IMO, and all the chops on both parts aren't helping.

 

For me, maybe I don't know how to listen, but the tune is a little boring...sort of ready set go music...I used to hear this way back in the day with the Plasmatics, and after 10 seconds I'd say..."so what else is new". There are no REAL ups and downs IMO, because when you're down, the guitar is up and vice versa. As you know, you can only have a reference to "up" if you know where "down" is...peaks and valleys. I don't hear it myself (maybe it's just me)...that is until 1:14 into the tune.

 

At 1:14 to 1:24 I heard some air, a break if you care to call it that, in the sonic wall. But everything there made sense...you all were in the same sync, and for me the tune came alive. My composition instructors used to tell me that if I wrote the whole band playing a climax for the whole piece, then no one will know when the real climax hits. The air is just as important as the notes, because the air gives reference to what the notes really mean.

 

I'd like to see when your guitar player is pounding out a particularly syncopated background rythm, that you would embellish that rythm slowly and susinctly, and then build it to the raucus roar and the blasting that you are quite capable of doing. Like a wave rolling in from the ocean and finally breaking on the shore.

 

Well that's my 2 cents...take it with a grain as always...

[Dark Slide]

Thanks for the feedback, Carmine. I guess we're from two different schools of thought on this, though I can appreciate where you are coming from and you are dead on in your critique.

 

In "Making Music", with Victor Wooten and Carter Beauford, they talk about letting the music breathe and how they will lay back when other guys are taking charge. If someone steps up to hammer down, They backs off and lets them do so... but they will also grab the spotlight on occasion, usually when the other guys are laying off. I subscribe to this concept and actually make an effort to do exactly what you're describing.

 

Simply a fundamental difference in composition styles... but as I said, you were dead on with your thoughts.

[Carminemw]

Thanks...now I understand your conceptualization. I do have to wonder though that in looking at both Wooten and Beuaford types of music (the masters that they are), if their concept fits in much more to their style of music in general. You guys are really full steam ahead and hitting the ground running. Even in a long sprint, the track star always has enough in reserve to push out his final "kick" to the finish. I wonder if your stuff might need that sonic swell rather than just running a whole race full tilt boogie.

 

It is just two different schools and opinions. And that's what makes the world go round the way it does. Happy kickin' man... and give your singer a Halls cough drop for me. Hey I'm sorry, I STILL don't get that type of vocal, but that's just the old fart in me that will never change I'm afraid. But then again, I didn't get Yoko Ono, and she was IN my generation...

 

If ya wanna be a trendsetter, ya gotta take chances sometimes!

[cearleywine]

Hey Carm, I'm 25 and I don't get the vocals. I'd kinda like to see someone actually sing out with this type of music. That's what I liked about Pantera, although I know they're not quite this hard and fast but he really sang out at times. Again no disrespect Darkslide, you clearly have a future in drumming.

[marko46]

Nick, as usual, you're "smokin" on several levels man. No, I don't care for the vocals either, but that's me. I think the song has tons of potential and is cool though. I agree, add a hook, a chourus, maybe along the lines of Opeth, who I really like. I'm by no means being a critic of the music though. I do also agree, you could add some color yourself with as you said timbales or whatever. You already know about the mix so I have no comment as you have addressed it. There are some very cool sections though, the pauses and such. Even a touch of dynamics throughout the song, be it volume or tempo could turn a good tune into a great friggin' tune.

 

Just an old dudes 2 cents also for what it's worth.

 

:thu:

[Dark Slide]

Thanks...now I understand your conceptualization. I do have to wonder though that in looking at both Wooten and Beuaford types of music (the masters that they are), if their concept fits in much more to their style of music in general. You guys are really full steam ahead and hitting the ground running. Even in a long sprint, the track star always has enough in reserve to push out his final "kick" to the finish. I wonder if your stuff might need that sonic swell rather than just running a whole race full tilt boogie. It is just two different schools and opinions. And that's what makes the world go round the way it does. Happy kickin' man... and give your singer a Halls cough drop for me. Hey I'm sorry, I STILL don't get that type of vocal, but that's just the old fart in me that will never change I'm afraid. But then again, I didn't get Yoko Ono, and she was IN my generation... If ya wanna be a trendsetter, ya gotta take chances sometimes!

 

Valid points, and points that I think are taken to heart by most bands in this genre.

 

As far as the vocals go... I have a hard time imagining that you've never wanted to just scream out your anger or frustrations, and if you haven't, maybe you should try it sometime It cleans the soul. I read about child molesters, rapists and those who exploit everyone and everything surrounding them and I feel like screaming... so I do. My singer is no different. We're not writing lyrics that are filled with gore and that sort of stuff... we're simply venting our frustrations and anger. You seem like a smart guy, I'm sure you can understand that.