Recording live for profit?

[tynman]

I was sitting at a cousin's choir concert about this time last year, and I had a thought, "I liked this concert. Wish I could have a CD of THIS concert." It's been a while and the idea has been rolling around in my head of recording a concert, then burning it on CDs fast enough that people walking out the door afterward would be able to buy it.

 

The initial responses from friends and strangers have been positive ("Dude, YEAH! I'd love to buy the disc as I was walking out the door."), but I'm at the phase now where it would be nice to have some more objective (and critical!) opinions.

 

Business plan, as it stands initially, would be to sell the service to the band. The simplest interface would be to plug into their equipment, etc., for recording purposes. The technical hurdles are making a quality recording, and then mass-burning CDs as fast as possible. I'm a techie kind of guy, so I tend to be optimistic in my (our-- other people are in on the project too, now) ability to make it work.

 

My question to the forum is, "Why hasn't this been done before?" It seems unlikely to the n-th degree that I'm the only person who's thought of this. Contracts for copyright of the performance, percentages of sales, etc., are obviously a factor (any lawyers in the group want some as-yet worthless stock options?), but would you, as musicians, be interested in a service like this? I admit to being completely ignorant about the music industry. I'm a programmer and a hardware nut, so I'm just sticking to what I know here. Am I missing something that's just completely obvious to all you musicians?

 

Any feedback on this would be -greatly- appreciated! My accountant buddy is incorporating us in a month or two, and I'd like to have some opinions from people in the know before I let him dive into that kind of paperwork.

[BlueStrat]

Some problems:

 

1)Most live performances are way worse on record than being there live. Once you don't have the visual aspect of the band, the energy of the crowd, and a feqw drinks in you, you can sit and listen to every out of tune guitar, every cracking off-key vocal line, every blown solo...I did a live CD recorded at a concert, we did a 90 minute set, and we were lucky to get 42 minutes of useable stuff out of it. the problem with selling it on the spot is that the band has no way of being able to tell if what is going out the door representing their talent is what they want going out to the public. It could help them or it could hurt them. But one needs time to analyze and edit, wherever possible, live material.

 

2) There are licensing issues to consider, unless you plan on every band recording all original material. But once you record something that is someone else's and you offer it for sale, you owe them royalty on it.

 

Still, I'm sure it could be worked out to where it's a feasable idea.

[jonosing]

I think it's a great idea, and Bluestrat is right on why most musicians would never go for it.

 

Everyone who has ever taped a gig knows this phenomenon. While playing, you're thinking "wow, we're right in the groove", then you hear the tape and think "That sucks!!". Simillarly, you have what you think is an off-night, and the tape is fantastic. Bottom line: I would NEVER hire this service out for these reasons. It's not ego, it's good business. If you have a bunch of mediocre recordings floating around out there, people are far less likely to think you're any good.

 

Hell of an idea though. For amateur chorus and band concerts, political speeches and other one-off events I think you've got a money maker. Church services, weddings, funerals, pep rallies. Just about anything except live music. Don't come near me with that thing!

[Harpua]

Right, because all of those mediocre live recordings circulated among Gratefule Dead, Phish, Dave Matthews, Allman Bros., etc. concert goers has certainly hurt their reputations and popularity.

 

I think it's a great idea and as a musician I would be all for it. Despite my sarcasm what the other guys pointed out would be very real concerns for some performers. I think it'll depend on the genre. Good luck!

[Scheming Demon]

As a musician and part of a band struggling to get somewhere, I want complete control of what goes out to the public that has my name and my band's reputation on it.

 

Everything I release to the public has my band's standards on it and that's how I want to represent my band to the public.

 

It is a great idea, assuming you could burn CD's that fast. I would have to hear the product first before I allowed it to go out.

 

Kind of ruins the I'll buy it now concept. There might be contractual obligations to work out. How would a band know if you went home and massed produced some copies after the fact and sold it without the band's knowledge or consent.

 

I have gone to many concerts and been blown away by the performance. Then listening back to the performance of the show I was at and going, whew, those backing vocals are out of key, how did I not notice it when I was there. Doesn't ruin the actual experience of being there but I think it does hurt a band whose reputation is made on being "virtuoso" musicians. I know they are only human but I still like to be impressed.

[Ministry of FOG]

I have a friend that is considering this same possibility. His idea was to take his Roland 1680 to a show and set up his own mics throughout the room to get a totally separate house mix on his machine, then to go master it.

 

The problem with that is from an engineering standpoint. You may be able to get a good show on the recorder, but you are pretty much at the mercy of the live engineer on how the recording turns out. If the live engineer sucks and you get horrible high freq feedback in the middle of the show, you can't do crap about fixing it on the CD you are about to burn.

 

From a band standpoint, I don't think I would want to take that chance by spending $300.00 to have some guy bring his stuff out, set up and all that and have it all turn out crappy because of something out of my control. I have seen breakers thrown in the middle of a concert, and lighting systems fail and a whole crowd turn on the band for it at once. These are all real world events and hiring someone to come out and attempt to capture a perfect show just to have life interfere is not something I would pay to do. Bands have a hard enough time making money as it is.

[StratKat]

Getting a good recording on a live show is really more about equipment then anything else. Here is why i say that.

 

I did this off and on for cash over the years. When i started out i had this sears (yep, thats what i said) portable cassette recorder witha built in mic. Just about 50 bucks new back in the 80's.

 

This thang made fantastic recordings! I swear im not lieing to ya. I made some of a few bands and they loved it. Just sit it up on a table about 50 feet from the band in the middle and hit record.

 

Later on i bought one of the very expensive stereo cassette recorders we see on ebay for 400 bucks. Portable? Yes! Quality? No...

 

Then i bought a 4 track Yamaha MT44 (one of the first if not THE first home 4 track cassette recorders. I made tons of recordings with it on live stuff and found the secret was to run a line from the board in mono, a mic hanging over the stage in the middle for ambient sound, a mic about 50 feet back in the center of the room, and a line from the boiards mixed vocals separate from the other instruments.

 

IF you have a good mix on the board and the mains sound decent you can fudge the vocals with the extra line out you setup for them.

 

And with a mic over the drums the center of the stage the drums are gonna come through loud and proud.

 

The room mic in the back gives enough FILL tones from reverb to cover alot of screwups.

 

Ive seen guys drag out tons of high dollar equipment for serious live recordings. Big boards, hi buck reel to reels, best of the best mics, secret equipment in black boxes (exciters) which are really just timers to balance the speed of signals. And the outcome was flat and boring to hear. And here i am with elcheapo stuff making better quality?

 

So if you truly wanna do this type stuff for bucks invest in and try out everything you can get your mitts on. Sometimes the best way aint the most expensive or formal.

[scubyfan]

no offense, but no matter how technical you are, you would not be able to make so many copies in so little time. when a performance is over, people leave, they don't wait to get cd's. cd's take about 10 mins to burn, otherwise the tracks may skip. what about performances over 70 mins? you can't just put it on mp3 - a lot of people dont know what hhe hell and mp3 is, esp adults, etc.

 

 

one thing you COULD do is record and sell it back to the audiecne at a later date, by providing them with a ticket or somthing that they could use to claim the cd, etc.

 

then it really becomes a mobile recording service.

 

i am a pessimist when it comes to everything, so excuse me if i discourage you. however, i say if you believe you can make something out of it, by all means try it. otherwise, you'll just end up saying, "what if?"

 

good luck and keep us informed!