Guarantees?

[Next to Nothing]

After reading a lot of threads here, it seems as if there is a vast amount of experience on here so I would like some advice.

 

How does a band go about asking for a guarantee? Quite a few of the bands we frequently share stages with say we should be getting them for a few reasons.

 

I am just aprehensive about approaching venues about it and pissing them off or what have you.

 

Just curious how some of you more experienced band members approach(ed) this situation. Or if you even have to.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Next to Nothing After reading a lot of threads here, it seems as if there is a vast amount of experience on here so I would like some advice. How does a band go about asking for a guarantee? Quite a few of the bands we frequently share stages with say we should be getting them for a few reasons. I am just aprehensive about approaching venues about it and pissing them off or what have you. Just curious how some of you more experienced band members approach(ed) this situation. Or if you even have to. Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

Asking for a guarantee shouldn't piss off any club owners. The worst that will happen is they'll say no.

 

Basically, the average club owner neither knows nor cares how good (or bad) you are, he's only interested in how you draw. If you aren't well known, if you don't have a core following you can draw to his club, you have no leverage with the club and you may even end up playing for free.

 

So it's just business, not personal. Keep all conversations friendly and non-emotional, but ask for what you want and all will be fine.

 

Generally, in my experience you will always get less than you deserve unless you negotiate. When a venue offers a guarantee, it's almost always because they're sure the door will be much more. Conversely, when they know it will be a bad night, they'll offer you all of the door or a big chunk of the bar. Fifty percent of nothin' is still nothin', they figure.

 

Personally, I've been screwed so many times playing for a percentage of the bar I won't do it anymore. At least when you're getting a cut of the door, you can have one of your people oversee the door if not take it, and have a good idea of what you're owed. We recently played a show where the bar was packed with people drinking non-stop, and received just $20 as our 20% cut of the bar. I gave them a piece of my mind and told them I'd never play for the again. I can tolerate a bad night, but not being cheated. There's nothing lower than cheating starving musicians out of money they were promised. People like that will soon graduate to stealing out of blind beggars' cups and kicking sleeping dogs, the f*ckers.

 

The bottom line, then, is that the club will only agree to pay you a guarantee if they think they'll make more than you're asking. Maybe you'll guess better than them (unlikely) and get paid more than you drew. That might make you feel good temporarily, but it will leave the venue unhappy and at least slightly impact on your ability to get additional gigs there.

 

So there's no pat answer. You have to feel it out. If you think you'll be screwed at the door, ask for a guarantee that is reasonable given the number of bodies you can get through the door. If you receive a guarantee that turns out to be too generous, take the money but make a generous offer to the club for a subsequent date to show the club owner that you're in this together. Pebblestar and I have done a free show for a club after we've failed to cover our guarantee on an off night. It's better to lose a little money once in a while than to lose a good venue permanently.

 

Then again, it depends on what your goals are.

 

If you're a cover band, you have to make your dime every time. It's a business and you have bills and people to pay. There is no end that justifies the means, the playing (and money) is an end in itself.

 

If you're an original band like we are, we are primarily trying to support our CD sales, build a regional following, and get our contract picked up by a larger label. So weddings and corporate gigs don't help our goal, we have to take the occasional $0 gig if it gets us the right exposure, e.g. opening for someone famous to expose ourselves to their fans.

 

Good luck!

 

Terry D.

[Next to Nothing]

Thanks, Terry. All of that is good stuff to think about.

 

We are an all original band and get a good draw for most shows.

 

We also have great standing with most the venues so like you say, I will just shoot the {censored} with them and see how it works out.

 

'ppreciate the time!

[GCDEF]

Maybe things are different in these parts, but my band just charges a set rate. I've never charged the door or a percentage of anything. You want my band, here's what it'll cost. We manage to keep pretty well booked.

[fastplant]

Mr Knobs hit it right on the head.

[wheresgrant3]

It's really hard to ask for a gaurantee in an original band situation unless your band is unique and you maintain a fairly decent draw. I play in a cover band and we have a gaurantee, even a payout schedule depending how much the club contracts us for. Most original bands in my area (there is a healthy punk/alternative scene here) share the door and play shows with a multitude of bands becuse it increases the overall draw. If 5 bands bring 40 people each, 200 people are at the show. Exposure not $payout is the ultimate prize. However there are two great cover bands that have a strong prescence in the area, that play out every so often. They get a gaurantee for when they play.... however there are three things that help with that.

 

#1- Both bands were previously signed to recording and publishing contracts.... they released albums on major sub labels and things just didn't pan out in the long run. They still have a strong local following.

 

#2- they don't play out much.... so when they do, it's an event!

 

#3- They have the support of a local radio station (especially one DJ) who is friends with the band, so they get abundant shout outs the week the show is schedule.

 

Given all of that, they still don't get paid as much as the highest paid cover bands in the area.

 

Playing from the cover side of the fench, I prefer gaurantees because it lets you budget the take at the end of the night and the owner knows exactly what it is going to cost him. I haven't played for the door in years and I'm sure in some cases I make a little less, however it's nice for me to know (for instance) in the month of September I'll make $850, and in October I'll make $600....etc.