Members KindredDuo Posted July 15, 2012 Members Share Posted July 15, 2012 We have one of those outdoor concerts coming up. The organiser says we might expect up to 400 people. My duo consists of two vocals, guitar, cello, an a small bit of hand percussion (Irish drum) doing Irish/Celtic/Contemporary Folk. There will also be an Irish Dance group playing their own tracks through our system. We use one Bose L1 model 2 (one B1 sub) with two of their digital mixers for our regular sound needs. It has never let us down, but I'm thinking this might be pushing it well beyond it's intended use. I'm thinking of sending the output of the L1 to our Mackie 808s mixer (the typical mixer-in-a-box) and then on to a couple EV 12"s on sticks to strengthen/support the L1. Has anyone done this, and if so, did it work out OK? Best, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n8cJohn Posted July 15, 2012 Members Share Posted July 15, 2012 I posted about our outdoor gig last night in BSWTB - but I can elaborate here - and you can extrapolate for your own situation. We played a Knox County Second Saturday Concert last night in a park that bounds Fort Loudon Lake. 4 pc rock cover band. We use 3 L1 systems - 2 model 1s and 1 model 2. We have 3 T1s, 8 B1s and two A1s. No single input goes to more than one L1 system. In mine we had lead vox, r guitar and the kick drum at the center of the stage. To my right we had the bass and bass player b/u vocals and drummer b/vocals (neither of them sings much). To my left is the Lead guitar and his vocals in the Model 2 - he does the majority of the backup vocals. There were no backline amps on stage. Bass player uses a BP355, I use an RP500 and the lead player has some older digitech modeler. The event was pretty well attended - given that the weather was iffy right up until curtain. The event coordinator estimated attendence at 300. Also there are folks anchored off shore listening from boats. I'd say there were about 6 - 8 boatloads (again very iffy weather all day) - one of the boats belonged to a friend of mine (the one on the left in photo 16 in the link below). The most that has ever shown up for one of these was 500. Here is a picture I took from the stage early in our set: Note the two tents on the right side of the picture towards the back of the crowd. Those tents are probably halfway to the parking lot. That is remarkable because of this - the wife of the drummer from my other band showed up for the event after it was underway - and she said that she chould hear us just fine as she got out of her car in the p-lot. I had the maste of my T1 at about 2:30 and I had my vocal channel at about 1:00 - with the gain properly staged. My friend in the boat said it sounded great out on the lake as well. The L1s were pointed away from the lake. When we got done playing - all the boats blew their horns and shouted for more music. Here is a link to the other photos. Most of these were taken by the lady sitting in the chair closest to the stage in the picture above. http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy249/SunDog3478/Half%20Past%20at%20The%20Cove/ I was kind of worried when the masses planted themselves soooo far from the stage. When we started playing I was afraid that we would see a mass chair migration forward. That never happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KindredDuo Posted July 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks for the reply! It's great to see all those L1s onstage. I'm not sure we have to cover quite the area you were, but we're trying to do it with one L1 and one B1 for two people. It's rare that we've ever had to turn the master much past 1 o'clock, but that was for a large indoor event where we were background music for a WHOLE BUNCH of politicos and the like (yack yack yack). At this point I'm going to come prepared to feed the Mackie board a mix to try and support what the Bose is doing. I'll let you know how it worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 If I was faced with your situation, I'd just add a powered sub. Here's why. When you run a second sound system, you have the issue of delay. Without processing, it can create chaos to your listeners. The thing is, in this situation, your initial system needs to be whatever is closest to the audience and you need to delay the L1 See where this is heading? 1ms per foot is what you need. Then, since you aren't used to the delay on your L1, it becomes discombobulating to you. The L1 has a really good coverage and should be able to draw the ones interested in hearing you closer. If you have a good tech with the extra equipment then go for it. If you're running the show from the stage.......I'd fugetaboutit. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KindredDuo Posted July 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 My wife (the singer who likes the tower very close to her in most situations) said last night that if we can crank the volume she probably won't need it so close to her. John, your comment about the delay issues and L1 coverage is appreciated. I never thought about it that way. We are running the show from the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hey John! You've talked about the powered sub before and I have a couple of questions. I've run my L1 for years without one and I'm thinking about getting one for outdoor gigs. So can you tell me what the deal is? I run a mackie mixer then send everything to the Bose. How do I "insert" the powered sub into this whole thing? Thanks and any advice on something moderately priced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 Potts, which L1 do you have, model I or II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hey John! You've talked about the powered sub before and I have a couple of questions. I've run my L1 for years without one and I'm thinking about getting one for outdoor gigs. So can you tell me what the deal is? I run a mackie mixer then send everything to the Bose. How do I "insert" the powered sub into this whole thing? Thanks and any advice on something moderately priced? I go from the mixer to the sub so it taps all the lows before it hits the L1. I've also used the Bass Line Out but since you're running a mixer anyway!!!! also my sub only goes up to 150 and the B1 is rated to 180 so I just leave it hooked in as usual. It sounds great. The sub I use is actually made for the studio and I need to spray some rhino liner on it and add handles but it works great. Bought it at an estate sale for 100 bucks. JBL studio 120 or something like that. 400 watts 12" speaker. If the sub you get has a LFE switch then you can just run from the bass line out and not miss that little slice of sound in the "Charlton Heston " range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 I go from the mixer to the sub so it taps all the lows before it hits the L1. I've also used the Bass Line Out but since you're running a mixer anyway!!!! also my sub only goes up to 150 and the B1 is rated to 180 so I just leave it hooked in as usual. It sounds great. Yeah, the crossover is at 180 for the bass line out, so if your sub only goes to 150 you might need to go through the mixer. If your sub goes up to the crossover point, though, there's some advantage in using the bass line out, because then you get more power directed to the frequencies above the crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 Yeah, the crossover is at 180 for the bass line out, so if your sub only goes to 150 you might need to go through the mixer. If your sub goes up to the crossover point, though, there's some advantage in using the bass line out, because then you get more power directed to the frequencies above the crossover. BTW. it was because of success you were having with your L1's when you got them (Back when they were PAS) It helped me pull the trigger. That and thanking myself for working 100 hr weeks after hurricanes Ivan and Dennis.......Thanks Lee. :phil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 16, 2012 Members Share Posted July 16, 2012 Potts, which L1 do you have, model I or II? Hi Lee! L1 Model 1 Yeah I got mine when they were still calling them the PAS too. This is my second one. I was in a duo that spit- he took my original L1 and I took the gigs, lights and mics and board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KindredDuo Posted August 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Well, I think one of the reasons everyone has been on edge lately around here is that they were worried about the gig I posted about here. I'm here to let you know everything is OK, and the gig went "fine". Because of the rescheduled rain date, fewer than expected showed up, maybe around 200 total spread out over a large yard in front of an 1850s era house that is now a B&B/restaurant. We had a 8x12 stage for the two of us, which we had to strike 50% of at the halfway point to make room for the Irish dance show, then reset for our last set. That was not a big problem, maybe 5 minutes each end. I appreciated the advice we got here, and summarily had to ignore all of it due to the fact that we can't afford to buy a new B1 at the moment. We arrived early enough to set up JUST the Bose and try it out, but it was pretty clear it wasn't going to cut it alone. I think this is where it's clear we are just putting too much into the one system. I did my best to gain stage properly, but to have the tower where the singer needed it made feedback an issue. I setup my EV 12" on sticks at each side of the stage and ran them to my Mackie 808s. I ultimately ran the dry mixes from the two T1 aux sends to two channels of the Mackie. I tried the line/bass out from the L1 but it seemed to cause a lot of distortion and was not too clear sounding. The dance announcer mic, and the ipod for the dancers went into the Mackie. Out front I think it sounded OK. I was able to hear what the dancers tunes and announcements sounded like, and it was clear and loud "enough". We had a slight ringing on stage between tunes, but nothing went too haywire. John Ellis mentioned the delay between tower and house speakers, but there didn't seem to be any more delay than a traditional sytem with floor monitors would have created. I'm sure if I pushed the speakers out into the yard more, there would have been bigger issues. So, I'm dreaming of $300 to get a B1, and thank all of you for your input. Sorry to have caused all of you so much worry these last few weeks..... Best, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 2, 2012 Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 LOL Dave! Nice post. I found one at "our" GC on the boulevard a couple weeks ago for $200. I'd continue to keep looking there when you do have the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KindredDuo Posted August 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2012 Cool! Was it new or pre-owned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 Cool! Was it new or pre-owned? Yep..per-owned. $209 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 Well, I think one of the reasons everyone has been on edge lately around here is that they were worried about the gig I posted about here. I'm here to let you know everything is OK, and the gig went "fine". Because of the rescheduled rain date, fewer than expected showed up, maybe around 200 total spread out over a large yard in front of an 1850s era house that is now a B&B/restaurant. We had a 8x12 stage for the two of us, which we had to strike 50% of at the halfway point to make room for the Irish dance show, then reset for our last set. That was not a big problem, maybe 5 minutes each end. I appreciated the advice we got here, and summarily had to ignore all of it due to the fact that we can't afford to buy a new B1 at the moment. We arrived early enough to set up JUST the Bose and try it out, but it was pretty clear it wasn't going to cut it alone. I think this is where it's clear we are just putting too much into the one system. I did my best to gain stage properly, but to have the tower where the singer needed it made feedback an issue. I setup my EV 12" on sticks at each side of the stage and ran them to my Mackie 808s. I ultimately ran the dry mixes from the two T1 aux sends to two channels of the Mackie. I tried the line/bass out from the L1 but it seemed to cause a lot of distortion and was not too clear sounding. The dance announcer mic, and the ipod for the dancers went into the Mackie. Out front I think it sounded OK. I was able to hear what the dancers tunes and announcements sounded like, and it was clear and loud "enough". We had a slight ringing on stage between tunes, but nothing went too haywire. John Ellis mentioned the delay between tower and house speakers, but there didn't seem to be any more delay than a traditional sytem with floor monitors would have created. I'm sure if I pushed the speakers out into the yard more, there would have been bigger issues. So, I'm dreaming of $300 to get a B1, and thank all of you for your input. Sorry to have caused all of you so much worry these last few weeks..... Best, Dave Glad it worked out Dave. I passed on a B1 a few months ago at my local GC. I wish I hadn't. They will only get rarer as time goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 Glad it worked out Dave. I passed on a B1 a few months ago at my local GC. I wish I hadn't. They will only get rarer as time goes on What makes you say that John? Are you thinking more and more people are going to suck up the used ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 What makes you say that John? Are you thinking more and more people are going to suck up the used ones? I do. Just like you did and several here hope to.BTW, I hooked my powered sub up to the Bass Line out and Bypassed the JBLs crossover (LFE SWITCH) And I really like that. It's a bit heavier and bulkier than a B! but it's enough bottom to actually feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 I do. Just like you did and several here hope to.BTW, I hooked my powered sub up to the Bass Line out and Bypassed the JBLs crossover (LFE SWITCH) And I really like that. It's a bit heavier and bulkier than a B! but it's enough bottom to actually feel it. Yeah you're probably right. I picked up a used one after my bud did. Are you going to gig with the powered sub now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 Yeah you're probably right. I picked up a used one after my bud did. Are you going to gig with the powered sub now? If it's more than 75-80 people I will until I get a 2nd B1 and always outside. My first gig in a few months was last Sunday. There were 3 club owners there and they told me that if I start using tracks, I should have no trouble staying busy here at the beach. The more songs I sing, The less nails I have to drive. Guess What I'm gonna do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 If it's more than 75-80 people I will until I get a 2nd B1 and always outside. My first gig in a few months was last Sunday. There were 3 club owners there and they told me that if I start using tracks, I should have no trouble staying busy here at the beach. The more songs I sing, The less nails I have to drive. Guess What I'm gonna do? That's awesome man! The "using more tracks" comment is funny too considering the recent negative posts about tracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Ellis Posted August 3, 2012 Members Share Posted August 3, 2012 That's awesome man! The "using more tracks" comment is funny too considering the recent negative posts about tracks I'm lazy so I'd rather not be bothered with them. I just close my eyes, throw my head back and wail. But these guys are competing for tourists dollars. Tracks give THEM more for less. I can't deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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