Members Dreampop6279 Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 Hi Everyone,i was wondering if some of the more experienced minds in here could help me out with an issue I was having. I recently picked up a Kurzweil Mangler and am loving the unit. I have incorporated the unit into my guitar setup, but currently am having a bit of trouble hooking up a midi controller to change patches on the fly. I have a behringer FCB1010 currently hooked up to the Mangler. I am attempting to scroll through the preset banks, but it seems that that once the banks go any higher than bank 5 (i.e.: presets 51-59) say for instance bank 7, it begins to pull the lower numbered presets all over again. This is obviouly a problem, since all of the tweaked settings I stored in the user presets are in the 190-200s patch numbers. Is there any way I can get the FCB to transmit program change commands to such high numbered presets, or is the limitation of the 9 banks goining to effectively render the FCB useless to me. In addition, is there anyone out there currently using a Mangler successfully with a midi controller? If so, what kind are you using? any input/feedback is greatly appreciated. Regards,-Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreampop6279 Posted February 28, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2005 anyone have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dann'sTheMan Posted March 1, 2005 Members Share Posted March 1, 2005 The Behringer is shipped to control two of their product line (one of the product lines is preset in the first 50 presets, the other in the last 50). You can reprogram the last 50 presets to output the correct Program Change MIDI message. One word of warning is that MIDI Program Change messages are limited to a number between 0 and 127 - and the FCB1010 can handle those no problem. You'll have to investigate what MIDI Program Change number you need to send to your Mangler to access the higher patch numbers (Mangler would have come up with a solution to get around the MIDI limitation with Program Change numbers), Big smiles, Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members losergeek Posted March 1, 2005 Members Share Posted March 1, 2005 how do you like the patch changes? are they quick enough for you? is there audio drop out? Thanks,Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members losergeek Posted March 1, 2005 Members Share Posted March 1, 2005 yeah - i've just heard conflicting opinions. One person said that there was a significant audio drop out, but when I emailed teh company they said there wasn't, but there was a little "merging" period where the patches would change over time, like leaving a delay trail or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dann'sTheMan Posted March 2, 2005 Members Share Posted March 2, 2005 So I checked both the Kurzweil manual and the Behringer manual. Basically the answer is yes - they should be able to work together. The Kurzweil manual says on page 28, that it uses MIDI Bank Select Controller messages to get around the MIDI limitation with Program Change numbers. Furthermore, the Behringer manual says on page 14, that it supports Bank selection on one keystroke. To perform a Bank select, both manuals say you will need to send a CC message of 32, with a value of 1 for presets 128-199, or alternatively a value of 2 for presets 200+ I've never tried this on my FCB1010, but if I understand the manual correctly, an example would be To select Kurzweil patch 173: Set up the FCB patch to have: PRG CHG5: Number=73 CNT1: Number=0 Value=0 CNT2: Number=32 Value=1 Please tell me more about how you are getting on with your Kurzweil. I may have to retire my old multi-FX unit soon, and the Kurzweil seems like an interesting contender. What units did you compare the Mangler against? Pros and Cons etc. Big smiles, Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreampop6279 Posted March 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted March 2, 2005 Hi gents,thanks for your help on this one....re-read the midi section of the manual a few times, and I'm starting to cop on to how to get it to work. need to spend a little time more with it though to feel comfortable with it. So far it seems the only way to do it is use direct selection mode and program in each program change patch in each bank as needed. Andy, I have used a Quadraverb and a Midiverb IV in the past, but I used them usually in a setting where I would just reach back and change the proram manually, or used a footswitch to bypass the unit. My biggest issue was the signal degredation/coloration when these units were in bypass mode, so I decided to give the Kurzweil stuff a go. I love the Mangler, but it might be a bit more than I needed at the given time. I wanted a rumour, as I primarily use rack stuff for reverbs and some delays. Those seem to be backordered everywhere for at leats a few more months, so I got the Mangler to hold me over. I love a number of the presets. the quality of the effects is excellent, and the bypass on the unit leads to no noticable signal coloration. I'm very happy with the purchase. There is a slight pause in changing between programs, but I don't find it to be a massive dealbreaker, as it kind of "smoothly transitions" for a split second between the two patches, as opposed to having one completely drop out and the other one come in abruptly where the other patch left off. hope this helps and thanks again all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members losergeek Posted March 3, 2005 Members Share Posted March 3, 2005 hey, if you decide to get rid of it in favor of a rumour, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dann'sTheMan Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Originally posted by Dreampop6279 Hi gents, thanks for your help on this one....re-read the midi section of the manual a few times, and I'm starting to cop on to how to get it to work. need to spend a little time more with it though to feel comfortable with it. So far it seems the only way to do it is use direct selection mode and program in each program change patch in each bank as needed. Andy, I have used a Quadraverb and a Midiverb IV in the past, but I used them usually in a setting where I would just reach back and change the proram manually, or used a footswitch to bypass the unit. My biggest issue was the signal degredation/coloration when these units were in bypass mode, so I decided to give the Kurzweil stuff a go. I love the Mangler, but it might be a bit more than I needed at the given time. I wanted a rumour, as I primarily use rack stuff for reverbs and some delays. Those seem to be backordered everywhere for at leats a few more months, so I got the Mangler to hold me over. I love a number of the presets. the quality of the effects is excellent, and the bypass on the unit leads to no noticable signal coloration. I'm very happy with the purchase. There is a slight pause in changing between programs, but I don't find it to be a massive dealbreaker, as it kind of "smoothly transitions" for a split second between the two patches, as opposed to having one completely drop out and the other one come in abruptly where the other patch left off. hope this helps and thanks again all. Hi Ed, Thanks for the insight. I currently use a Zoom 9030 in my rig, and it's served me well, but I should really retire it before it dies on me at a big gig. I hadn't considered Kurzweil until I read your post, and now I've very interested. It's good to have more of the affordable pro level rack units - they're rather scarce these days. The magazine review I read also leaned in favour of the Rumour. I shall dig deeper. Regarding your MIDI programming challenges - you're right that you will have to program the Program Change command into each patch that it is needed on the Behringer. However, my understanding is that you're not limited to being in Direct Selection mode. Direct Selection is just one of the two methods of navigating to a patch in the Behringer, and the patch is where the Program Change command is stored. If you prefer to use the Bank Selection approach for navigating to the patch on the Behringer, then this won't limit what you can do in terms of Program Change commands in that patch. Big smiles, Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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