Members TheCalmingApple Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 First let me state im not trying to do a w/d rig. im wondering if its possible to run two amp heads, with two identical effects processors in the loop of each(say a rocktron xpression for instance), With a gcx and a midi controller controlling the rig so that I could for example, with one footswitch call up a preset(say, dirty+delay sound) having the rig switch to the dirty channel of both amps, and have it also switch to a delay patch on both effects processors set at identical parameters(like a 600ms delay setting). This seems to be the easiest way to do this in theory to me, as I wouldn't be able to run a single effects unit in the loop of two separate heads. just to have an idea, I currently have a dual rectifier head and want to run a marshall type head along with it at the same time to achieve my main tone. I have a gcx on the way... and still have yet to purchase my midi controller. could anyone with midi experience help me to explain what is needed to do what I need? any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hefonthefjords Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 program change 1 for effects units on midi channel 1, program change 2 for gcx on midi channel 2, then you should be able to just link your processors and gcx via midi in/thru to have them do what you are suggesting, assuming you have a midi controller that can send multiple simultaneous program changes (like a behringer fcb1010, they're lovely and cheap by the way, just my recommendation). you actually could do this with one processor, the only reason there would be to have two is if you wanted to do two seperate effects at the same time (which you COULD do with a single STEREO processor), all you should need is two sets of splitter cables to plug both fx sends from the heads into the input of the single fx processor and both returns into the outputs of the single fx processor that may have been a {censored} explaination but i think im right... someone else may want to correct or elaborate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheCalmingApple Posted February 7, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 assuming you have a midi controller that can send multiple simultaneous program changes (like a behringer fcb1010, they're lovely and cheap by the way, just my recommendation). can the ground control pro do this? or will i have to spring for a unit like the rocktron all access to do what you are saying. Im really against the fcb unit because of the horror stories ive heard of how hard it is to program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheCalmingApple Posted February 7, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 wouldnt using both amps effects loops with a y splitter into the effects unit cause some sort of ground problems or something? I wouldnt imagine that would work without some type of mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevieray Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yeah, ground loop hell. You've got a couple of options here. If you go with two processors, you don't even need the multiple MIDI channel thing (although the GCPro does 8 channels for future reference). You could put both processors on the SAME midi channel and they'll both be responding to the same MIDI messages. The only downside I see is that you could lose some stereo stuff by not having stereo crossfades and such. Also, could be some phasing issues if the units aren't identically in spec or if you miss something while programming. You could take your two amps' preamps into the Xpression's stereo inputs and stereo out to your two returns, but you'd have to invest in some isolating transformers (Axess BS-2 buffers would be great). Looking at the Xpression's block diagram, it's going to mix the signals internally anyway so you wouldn't really benefit from a mixer unless you just wanted a level knob and potentially some isolation built into the mixer (depends on what mixer). This guy can build you a custom solution for not too much scratch. www.psionicaudio.com Lyle has been extremely helpful to me and he loves to make custom solutions that no standard gear can achieve. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheCalmingApple Posted February 7, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 im interested in the second solution. as it seems less of a headache and more cost effective. how many bs2s would I need and where would they go and the signal chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevieray Posted February 7, 2007 Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 You need to isolate one of the amps. If you used all BS-2s then it would take 3 of them. One to split your guitar to the two amps (one isolated). One for the send to the Xpression and one for the return. A little bit cheaper alternative would be to use Ebtech Hum Eliminators http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-2Channel-Hum-Eliminator?sku=150450 (just a 1:1 transformer in a box) for the loop send/return of the isolated amp. You wouldn't really need the BS-2's buffer for this application, so it can be cheaper and simpler (no power needed) to use the transformers. If you want to make it a nicer setup, get Lyle to do you a custom rack interface that includes the BS-2 and some iso transformers (could even use really nice Jensen transformers here) in a single rack space interface. Check out his custom work page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheCalmingApple Posted February 7, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2007 would I need 3 of the ebtech units as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boyband03 Posted February 8, 2007 Members Share Posted February 8, 2007 or you could get a gmajor... it can control 2 1/4" functions and it runs in stereo... i did this for a long time and eventually went to running a groundcontrol pro and a rack, but it worked great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheCalmingApple Posted June 29, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2007 You need to isolate one of the amps. If you used all BS-2s then it would take 3 of them. One to split your guitar to the two amps (one isolated). One for the send to the Xpression and one for the return. A little bit cheaper alternative would be to use Ebtech Hum Eliminators http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ebtech-2Channel-Hum-Eliminator?sku=150450 (just a 1:1 transformer in a box) for the loop send/return of the isolated amp. You wouldn't really need the BS-2's buffer for this application, so it can be cheaper and simpler (no power needed) to use the transformers. If you want to make it a nicer setup, get Lyle to do you a custom rack interface that includes the BS-2 and some iso transformers (could even use really nice Jensen transformers here) in a single rack space interface. Check out his custom work page. could this same thing be done with just a dd-20?. I dont think ill be needing all of the effects that the xpression has so would this idea work with a dd-20... since it has stereo ins and outs just like the xpression, id imagine it would work too, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheCalmingApple Posted July 1, 2007 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2007 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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