Analyzing Rock/Classic Metal Vocalists

[SAMMY]

Hello , Didn't want to clutter the "vocal forum " with this one as it probably relates to a smaller group of board members and seems specific enuff to warrant it's own thread.The premise here is to discuss singers like Halford , Mercury , Dickerson , Tate , ect. in relation to thier vocal techniques , equipment (mics , compressors , EXF , ect.).Of course any singers in this category are open for discussion - dont let my own examples dictate anything - as long as it fits in the classic metal or rock genre it fits here...

One obvious thing would be to harness the sheer power of numbers , out of all the members here there has to be some aware of links to interviews with engineers , the artist themselves , producers , techs ect. that could be posted in this thread to hear things from the "horses" mouths so to speak.

Well , I'll sit back a moment and see if there is any interest - if not I'll probably pull this as I would not want it to take away from the impact of the "main" vocal thread - WE NEED OUR OWN FORUM!!!

[J Kylez]

I'll tell you what I've been struggling with for years. The head voice tone is my problem. You can tell pretty easily when Halford is singing head voice, Tate is very good at it too. Dickinson just pretty much powers through and screeches falsetto. Tate is the real trick. He has to using head voice, the more you listen, the more you can kinda tell but the tone is so close to chest voice it is sickening.

 

The real dilemma, technique to get head voice that full! How's it done? How to make it fuller like the chest voice.

 

I realize that everyones voice sounds different. I'm okay with that. I'm not talking about sounding like a singer just the technique. Mastering that would save me some pushing and fatigue.

[glepko]

I like the sounds of this topic and I'm curious to see where it goes.

[hairmetal]

This is deffinately something to persue!

 

A forum sounds a good idea!

 

[SAMMY]

Originally posted by J Kylez I'll tell you what I've been struggling with for years. The head voice tone is my problem. You can tell pretty easily when Halford is singing head voice, Tate is very good at it too. Dickinson just pretty much powers through and screeches falsetto. Tate is the real trick. He has to using head voice, the more you listen, the more you can kinda tell but the tone is so close to chest voice it is sickening. The real dilemma, technique to get head voice that full! How's it done? How to make it fuller like the chest voice. I realize that everyones voice sounds different. I'm okay with that. I'm not talking about sounding like a singer just the technique. Mastering that would save me some pushing and fatigue.

 

 

 

 

Interestingly enuff , from the three exellent vocalist examples you chose - Geoff is said (By engineers , producers , vocal "coaches") to have the lowest "room volume" of the three...It has become my own opinion that when a singer uses less push in general on his chest voice , that the contrast between the chest and head is minimized...

Geoff Tate , Luther Vandross , Steve Perry ... singers that are singing with less "push" in general can be identified by the breathy quality that remains connected thru all registers (in general-they also are going to have moments of MORE "push" but usually more as a coloring and not so much a constant tonal mechanism.

For instance...You listen to Geoff Tate on ballads and then his hardest rockers and IN GENERAL there is a continuity to the BASIC tone (you can HEAR that he's really not pushing to get the NOTE , but using more push as an embellishment on certain words , phrases to give the vocal track dynamics - I do not absolutely know for sure but would venture an educated geuss that he is either a "speech Level singing" advocate or is naturally using his own "accidently found the technique all on his own" version of it.)If you listen to say Halford singing "Diamonds and Rust" and then say "three Wheel Burning" you will find it's very easy (as you said) to identify when he's in chest , head or on for example the highest of the notes he sings "blasted" falsetto - true screaming ,wich you'll notice makes rare one phrase appearances on most priest tunes and is used extrememly sparingly on recording and even more so live as it is shocking to the folds.An exellent example of this would be the "head out to the highway" song where during the section-

 

verse

chorus

verse

chorus

"on the highway"- mixed

"on the " - still a blended head voice

"highway!!!"- this last one is not a mixed head voice but a pure falsetto "scream" ...

 

 

I find (as you said) that Halford is much easier to use as an example of the different voices as you can again "HEAR" that He IS pushing - not overly hard as to constitute "bad" technique at all but enuff to clearly hear the different regusters if you listen close enuff.This can be attributed to several things- one , Geoff is arguably a "lyrical" baritone with an extended range where as Rob appears to be more of a "dramatic" low tenor who in adition has used the basic differences in registers as part of "his" sound- where as in a very Luther , Steve perry , dokken , ect, way Geoff has made smooth transitioning with an emphasis on the simularities between his registers "his" trademark.

 

 

As for how it's done...Well...If I could easily get that across to you in a short typed message - I'd probably be sitting here counting the mountains of cash that would litter my living room instead of typing this ....

 

However , heres a good place to start , actually hearing something instead of the endless and largely non-fruitfull describing I find all over the web,It's kind of riding a bike the ability to sing in head voice well , you can describe it till your blue in the face but it really comes about almost by accident and then you remember what you did and repeat endlessly until it's in the muscle memory banks and THEN work on "controling" it , ie. tone volume coloring ect.- so:

 

 

http://www.goodrichvocal.com/education/voicelesson_men.htm

 

 

this is a good link (non-rock/metal-but exellent for hearing whats going on with correct and incorrect transitioning!)

hopefully others will also chime in...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[strat2]

Originally posted by SAMMY Hello , Didn't want to clutter the "vocal forum " with this one as it probably relates to a smaller group of board members and seems specific enuff to warrant it's own thread.The premise here is to discuss singers like Halford , Mercury , Dickerson , Tate , ect. in relation to thier vocal techniques , equipment (mics , compressors , EXF , ect.).Of course any singers in this category are open for discussion - dont let my own examples dictate anything - as long as it fits in the classic metal or rock genre it fits here... One obvious thing would be to harness the sheer power of numbers , out of all the members here there has to be some aware of links to interviews with engineers , the artist themselves , producers , techs ect. that could be posted in this thread to hear things from the "horses" mouths so to speak. Well , I'll sit back a moment and see if there is any interest - if not I'll probably pull this as I would not want it to take away from the impact of the "main" vocal thread - WE NEED OUR OWN FORUM!!!

 

This is not clutter, this is what we expect to see in the current

Vocal Forum...

Till they set us up a full one.

 

=

=

[SAMMY]

Thanks Strat2!!!

 

 

Also- a very important point I some how missed in my rather wordy response to the Geoff Tate question(how exactly do you talk about singing technique with out a surplus of words tho?)-

Key to smooth transitions - And by key , I mean first in priority - is the mechanical truth that the folds are going to shorten and re- align themselves for the next register up , and as you approach this "break" the tendency for the novice is to tense and begin to push more , when in fact the key to smooth transitioning is to NOT push too hard or else you end up dragging your chest voice up beyond the point of natural smooth transitioning and it will suddenly "blatt" into headvoice- not pleasant or smooth , the "smoothies" so to speak are making sure to approach the break with enuff support but not TOO much as the folds when they do shorten require LESS air pushed thru them to resonate ...

Another point that is key but I don't see addressed nearly as much as the more universal mechanics of head voice is the absolute uniqueness of each singers's resonance cavities and how to form each vowel to resonate best for each individual singer - for instance - comparing Steve Perry and Rikk Emmett's most projected and resonant higher notes (usually in a chorus)- these two although you could write volumesw of contrasts between thier tones are in the same GENERAL zipcode in terms of what they are doing - yet each resonates best by forming thier vowels slightly ( and sometimes not so slightly) differently . The way I shape and pronounce an "o" or OOOOH sound will certainly not resonate to it's full potential in YOUR cavities , we each have different palate characteristics ect. Some of the vowel pronounciations we associate with different singers are actually a mechanism to "keep it smooth"...wich while working best for them may not be the best way to get that vowel to ring for someone else..

[J Kylez]

Good stuff!

 

Obviously where your range is dictates where you should be breaking. Which makes it a challenge to copy some singers. I think that is a mistake many singers make. They try to copy things exactly. This could lead to pain and damage. I've been there.

 

I'm still working on relaxing more. It definitely puts less stress on the voice when you can keep all the abdominal, neck, and face muscles relaxed. It's not always easy in rock music though. Just the energy makes you want to be agressive. Plus it just sounds better, less abrasive.

 

Part of the problem for me band members telling me to put more power behind it and sing in the chest voice more. That would be great if I had the range for some of it. I can extend my chest voice a bit but it's fatiguing. Things swell and it's tough to do it many nights in a row. I don't have a rough tone naturally, it's more of a clean sound like Halford or Tate. I can get dirty in the head and falsetto if I have to.

 

Other than the obvious excercises I'm gonna start recording a vocal track along with songs I like to or strive to sing so I can listen back later. Then I can really analyze the techinique, annunciation, and tone of my voice. I think that will help me work on the weak spots. Playback doesn't lie. You definitely hear things in the studio that you don't catch live especially hearing your internal resonance. I learned a lot from studio work. Luckily I have access to multitrack in my home studio/practice area.

 

Anyway, great topic. Lots of good info already. I'm still waiting for a dedicated vocal forum!

[SAMMY]

Well I've got a question - what wireless mic is Halford using on the new Priest tour?I know it's a shure but can't tell wich make - in some shots the grill looks round like a 58 and in some I think it looks flat at the tip like 57's and 87's, also on the dvd I can't really make out if the ring is silver or blue (reg or beta) Hmmmmmm........He's not using several models for different songs is he?

[SAMMY]

Heres an interesting producer comment on R.Halford by producer Roy Z , who has produced Halford both with and without Priest (producer "Angel of Retribution"- current Priest offering)..

 

 

 

[SAMMY]

Sorry to be so Halford Heavy - I promise to move on to other classic metal / rock vocalists in short order...

BUT...for now here's some very interesting and pertanent comments from the man himself concerning his singing-

 

 

"just like guitarists tried to find new sounds and new ways to express themselves with their instruments, I did my best to push the limits of my voice to come up with something original, a sound that was my own."

 

 

"It is remarkable. As I've said in recent interviews when I try and look over the fact that I've been a metal singer for 32 years and I've been doing all these amazing vocal gymnastics over that time -- it is remarkable that it's still able to do what it does. I don't know what the answer is! (laughs) I try not to question too much about it. I'm just grateful that it's still got the strength and power after all of these years of singing.

 

The fact is, because singing is an internal thing -- it's not like if you bust a guitar string you can change it -- it's very much a physical part of your abilities, you're really looking after it in the best way possible. And that means, especially when you're touring, you just try and get as much rest as you possibly can between shows; keep the use of the voice down to a minimum, because it is a muscle and muscles get worn out.

 

But there is no real system of looking after it apart from, like I said, getting as much rest as possible when you're working. There's no lotions or potions or satanic incantations (laughs); maybe it's something in the water from Birmingham, from the Midlands, where I'm from. There's another great singer from the Midlands, Robert Plant, and he can still belt it out.

 

I think it might also be due to the fact that, using me and Robert as examples, we started off as singers that kind of developed a particular style, so I suppose the virtuosity of what we do with our vocal chords is quite unique in the places that we take it to. Whereas a lot of singers today do tend to stay in one particular area, we're always trying to knock one out of the ballpark. Maybe that's given us something of an edge."

 

 

*(these are excerpted from a KTVU interview-the interview in it's entirety can be found here:)

 

 

http://www.ktvu.com/entertainment/2239905/detail.html

 

 

 

KNAC.COM: On

[SAMMY]

And now a few words from Steve Perry:

 

 

What did you do while on tours to keep your voice in shape? Seems that singing night to night with such a range can be hard on one's cords.

SP: I wouldn't talk to anyone all day till the sound check. This put a little moody vibe on my relations with the band but it worked for my voice. I also think I was young and lucky to sing in a style that didn't tear it down.

 

 

What was the most difficult song for you to sing during the Escape tour?

SP: At that time they were pretty much all OK and not one was more difficult than another. NOW - later, around 1983, I'd say the last high note on

[John S. Shinal]

I'll add another )dark horse) candidate for great vocals, Steve Walsh of Kansas. Extremely good balance between upper and lower ranges and LOTS of volume without straining.

 

I recall both times I saw Kansas, noticing how pronounced his breathing was - consciously or not, he always worked with as much air as he could.

 

Inexpert as I am, I think that singing with full to midlevel air in the lungs removes a lot of the stress on the throat due to clenching. The vocal cords are essentially the same as reeds on a sax - and they need a certain quantity of air to vibrate properly. You can use less, but it requires changing the tension of the reed to make it vibrate the same way.

 

I still think Halford's versions of Diamonds And Rust on the Unleashed In the East CD is one of the all-time great rock vocal tracks.

 

[SAMMY]

Originally posted by John S. Shinal I'll add another )dark horse) candidate for great vocals, Steve Walsh of Kansas. Extremely good balance between upper and lower ranges and LOTS of volume without straining. I recall both times I saw Kansas, noticing how pronounced his breathing was - consciously or not, he always worked with as much air as he could. Inexpert as I am, I think that singing with full to midlevel air in the lungs removes a lot of the stress on the throat due to clenching. The vocal cords are essentially the same as reeds on a sax - and they need a certain quantity of air to vibrate properly. You can use less, but it requires changing the tension of the reed to make it vibrate the same way. I still think Halford's versions of Diamonds And Rust on the Unleashed In the East CD is one of the all-time great rock vocal tracks.

 

 

 

 

Great point , (and awesome vocalist-wonder what ever happened to him , and if he's still working?)The "expert"(ie. professional Rock Vocal coaches) stance on this is to keep a relatively full lung and take shallow "sips" of air as needed to top of the lungs in between phrases , basically the theory is to keep the lungs roughly 3/4 full of "cushion" that stays permanently in for support and the "sips" that top it off are what you're actually expelling during each phrase.

I still remember listening to a VERY long ago Steve Perry interview / guest spot on rockline or some such radio show(I'll leave out the year so as not to date myself - believe me I'm no spring chicken)and he kept breathing and licking his lips AUDIBLY while speaking , although it was somewhat distracting - I think this was one of those "moments" for me - the kind that a light bulb goes on - and I realized that vocalists of this caliber are aware of , pampering and "using" thier instrument even when not "singing".Another was backstage at a christian concert of a band called Petra that a promoter friend had got me passes for , the singer (who's name I forget) was a spectacular tenor and although I din't get to actually meet him , I could hear him warming up doing "falling E-e-e-e-e-e-e- sirens " and such and as he walked by to take the stage he had a scarf wrapped around his throat that he removed at the last moment - all in all I was shocked at the professionalism and absolute seriousness of how he treated his instrument .BTW , Although I'm not exactly a fan of christian rock music this guy was more than worth seeing wether you espouse his personal beliefs or not (a sort of vocal Parallel to Phil Keagey- a christian guitarist worth seeing wether or not you consider yourself the "christian" type or not- hey talent is talent)anyway , this guy went out and performed FLAWLESSLY - I have NEVER seen a rock or metal vocalist who's singing performance so epitamized perfection(apparently there reaaly is justice tho- as a front man he was instantly forgetable..).Although I didn't particularly care for thier music overall ,( not to say it wasn't good - it was and talk about TIGHT! I geuss clean living may have something to do with that!It was a bit "Poppy" for me at that time in my life)but man ,that singer was ON...I'm sure as us all ,he has off nights but that particular night I would have put him up against any Lyrical tenor in rock (by lyrical think Steve Perry , Joe Lynn turner , Dokken - guys of "that" genral ball park "style")

 

I too never get tired of Diamonds and rust - halford really shows his depth on that one.Definitely one of my perennial faves by the "metal God"...

 

BTW - I was able to find out that the wireless used on the recent "angel of retribution" tour was a Shure BETA 58....interestingly enuff , the main sound engineer claims he ran Rob thru a Behringer Tube composer !I know!...I'll have to find the link to that interview and post it -I wouldn't believe it either if I hadn't read it myself...Still not sure I really do - could be one of those "white endorsement lies"

[SAMMY]

Not very familiar with his stuff and hesitant over his "fit" in my original definition of rock'CLASSIC metal but definitely a valuable addition to this thread in terms of Vocal technique for the heavier styles:

 

Kelly Sundown Carpenter of Beyond Twilight has offered some in depth looks at his techniques and vocal approach...

 

 

I'm especially a fan of theatrical singing, and I'd put you into that category although one shouldn't ever categorize anything. Obviously you have quite a range... do you have any singing techniques you could reveal?

 

I have done a lot of research on voice... but in the end it comes down to being in really good shape physically and drinking your water. Exercise, proper sleep and lots of water are the three keys to being able to deliver vocally.

 

To be more specific, how does your technique vary when you sing with a raspy edge (a bit reminiscent to that of J

[John S. Shinal]

Originally posted by SAMMY wonder what ever happened to him , and if he's still working?) I too never get tired of Diamonds and rust - halford really shows his depth on that one. interestingly enuff , the main sound engineer claims he ran Rob thru a Behringer Tube composer !

 

Walsh recently toured with the remaining Kansas lineup. I think Livgren actually did one small tour with them, but is not a regular member, ditto Steinhardt. Among the young (high school) players I have recorded recently, there is a retro wave of "classic" AOR - and Leftoverture seems to be in wide circulation among them.

 

 

Interesting tidbit on Halford's live compression, funny that it seems to all be for the monitors ! I think the need to squash his signal hard may just be from his power, rather than mic technique. On "Unleashed" he sings "Victim of Changes", where the breakdown goes from very quiet and "intimate" to a huge falsetto scream without any funny artifacts in the sound.

[SAMMY]

interesting halford in ear monitor comment:

 

 

Judas Priest's Halford has become a solid proponent of personal monitoring based upon results obtained with his Shure PSM 700 system. "I've found that the in-ear experience gives me more confidence and control," he acknowledges. "It's great to exercise power over your own mix, and as a singer, you don't tend to over-perform. With traditional monitors, sometimes if they aren't giving you what you need, you'll push yourself to a place you shouldn't go to increase the volume. Ultimately, that always becomes a failed exercise, and I found that the only way out is with personal monitors. I will not go anywhere without them now."

[patshep]

i don't know if this is limited to 'classic' or not, but chris cornell has some pretty amazing stuff going on, you can tell how he learned to sing over time.. and he sounds amazing now, so much power and great technique

[SAMMY]

 

Originally posted by patshep i don't know if this is limited to 'classic' or not, but chris cornell has some pretty amazing stuff going on, you can tell how he learned to sing over time.. and he sounds amazing now, so much power and great technique

 

 

 

I'd say he fits perfectly - + I'm finding that's it's hard to seperate classic and current rock/metal when researching vocal techniques/mechanics the current crop are expanding and refining the feild , and in general seem more cognizant of "proper" techniques than interviews on the same subject with "yesterdays" ( 70-early 90's) icons.I wouldn't hesitate a second to use chris as an example of adding scratch to your head voice w/o damage.I'll put it on my short list of things to research for this thread- but I'll (for now) go out on a limb and say that I believe he's doing it by "rasping " the air BEHIND the folds back in the throat and placing it smack dab in the soft palate for most of his "head voice" notes.But yeah man , great singer Hopefully he's given out some comments on his techniques and stuff - I'll check for some...

[SAMMY]

this weeks current q&a with Mark Baxter @ getsigned relates 100% to the latest post:

 

 

Q: Hey, Mark, I was hoping you could tell me how to blend my registers like Chris Cornell and David Coverdale. --Thanks! Heath

 

A: Start at a low volume and practice on single vowels like EE and AH. Allow your voice to crack and break up when going through the break. The trick is to dial in the right amount of air -- which changes as you rise and fall. Cracking doesn't hurt you physically, but most singers clamp up when they sense it's about to occur and that kills everything. Until you find the right balance (sing through the break) it's best to keep the volume low. Raise the volume only when the lower volume is successful. In the end your reflexes should be adjusting the air to automatically accommodate the change of registers. That's what Chris and David have going on. If you are afraid of cracking you will over ride the reflexes and force the voice not to change. It ends up sound wimpy.

[Bajazz]

 

Originally posted by SAMMY A: Start at a low volume and practice on single vowels like EE and AH. Allow your voice to crack and break up when going through the break. The trick is to dial in the right amount of air -- which changes as you rise and fall. Cracking doesn't hurt you physically, but most singers clamp up when they sense it's about to occur and that kills everything. Until you find the right balance (sing through the break) it's best to keep the volume low. Raise the volume only when the lower volume is successful.

This takes years. I've been doing it for years and is exactly the same answer I got from Seth Riggs ("Singing for the stars" - Speech level singing)

 

I have mastered to get a even relaxed transition from bass low B and 4 1/2 octaves up on low to medium volume, but once I start to raise volume I can only sing in either chest or falsetto and none between. A trick I have found is to adds ome 'bite', 'dirt' or distortion to my voice so it seems harder and then just use the volume button on the mixer. Also run the mic pres so hot it almost distorts makes the vocals harder.

[patshep]

chris cornell screwed up his voice at the end of soundgarden, then went back and learned correct technique.. and now sounds even more amazing.. i've been working with a jazz teacher, she has had me singing through the break since day one.. it has been very helpful, we finally started doing a little more 'belting' using mixed voice, but more on the chest side

i'm enjoying it alot, even though i'll probably never sing the kind of stuff these guys do..

[Bajazz]

 

Originally posted by patshep i've been working with a jazz teacher, she has had me singing through the break since day one.. it has been very helpful, we finally started doing a little more 'belting' using mixed voice, but more on the chest side

Come on, share you're knowledge! Suggestions on how to do it?

 

Excercises?

Tricks?

 

Please!

[SAMMY]

To get people thru the initial "internal mechanisms" of the mixed or bridged voice and thru the break "correctly" and smoothly - I've used the "siren" , and the "bumble bee"(sometimes called the motorboat)"vocalizing "tricks" but usually find the "creaking Door" to be the one that ANYBODY can use to almost instantly "get it".

The "creaky door" (BTW ALL three of the above mentioned techniques are commonly used devises to set up the proper internal balances for correct range and voice transitions), is where you start near the top of your range -in falsetto , on a note thats high but not strained in any way- you know , comfortble to hit in a speaking level voice w/o needing ANY pushing to hit it-so...you start on this note making a "cre-e-e-e-e-e-e-a-a-a-a-a-aking" sound like a rusty door hinge , all rasp and on the E vowel mostly although any vowel will do as it's the "fry-like" creak (think AC/DC and how his tone is rasped)as you slowly and gently let the notes smoothly descend it's almost impossible to go thru the break incorrectly as long as volume is low and throat is relaxed , thats the beauty of this technique-it sounds silly but works ...I think that because the voice isn't "locked in" to "making " the tone of the notes , instead it's freed up bythe way this technique is all about the "ragged" creaky tone thats not condusive to pushing in order to produce, and the descending as opposed to ascending nature of it seems to also prevent tightening in anticipation of the trouble spot as the bridge is approached.

I'm an obssessed learner , but not in any way a teaching guru or anything so if my explaination is confusing - blame me , not the technique ....

[Bajazz]

Originally posted by SAMMY To get people thru the initial "internal mechanisms" of the mixed or bridged voice and thru the break "correctly" and smoothly - I've used the "siren" , and the "bumble bee"(sometimes called the motorboat)"vocalizing "tricks" but usually find the "creaking Door" to be the one that ANYBODY can use to almost instantly "get it". The "creaky door" (BTW ALL three of the above mentioned techniques are commonly used devises to set up the proper internal balances for correct range and voice transitions), is where you start near the top of your range -in falsetto , on a note thats high but not strained in any way- you know , comfortble to hit in a speaking level voice w/o needing ANY pushing to hit it-so...you start on this note making a "cre-e-e-e-e-e-e-a-a-a-a-a-aking" sound like a rusty door hinge , all rasp and on the E vowel mostly although any vowel will do as it's the "fry-like" creak (think AC/DC and how his tone is rasped)as you slowly and gently let the notes smoothly descend it's almost impossible to go thru the break incorrectly as long as volume is low and throat is relaxed , thats the beauty of this technique-it sounds silly but works ...I think that because the voice isn't "locked in" to "making " the tone of the notes , instead it's freed up bythe way this technique is all about the "ragged" creaky tone thats not condusive to pushing in order to produce, and the descending as opposed to ascending nature of it seems to also prevent tightening in anticipation of the trouble spot as the bridge is approached. I'm an obssessed learner , but not in any way a teaching guru or anything so if my explaination is confusing - blame me , not the technique ....

This is the methods of all books, instructions, DVD's etc guiding you tru breaks. It works, I know, I can master this perfectly. But only problem is...

 

It's useless on actual songs. No matter how well I do the excercises (believe me, I've spent hours a day for years) are done, it isn't transferable to songs, only works for excercises. At least not for me....Once I start to try to sound normal, I start yodeling.