using drum triggers and modules live.

[milesdf]

hi everyone, i was taking a shower today pondering how 9/10s of the bands we do sound for have really poorly tuned or just generally {censored}ty drums, when i thought of stocking a set of triggers and a drum module. i know drummers having triggers and a module is fairly common, but ive never seen a sound provider ever put them on drums. does anyone ever do this? and is there a problem with it? it seems like a pretty good solution to my problem, especially if i could get a set of triggers that would clip on to drums pretty easily.

[shredfit]

Actually, you can build your own triggers for only a couple of bucks... just get a piezo element and wire a quarter inch jack to it...

 

However, setting up a triggered kit is a total pain in the ass with respect to different drummers playing styles and hits... The sensitivity of the triggers is the key issue... (ie too sensitive and you may get false triggers... or too unsensitive and you will get dropped hits). IMO, with different drummers comming in all the time it would be impractical... or just too hard to set... and take way too much time... (it used to take me a couple hours to set triggers for a different drummer where there would be no dropped hits or doubled triggers)

[milesdf]

yeah, after reading a couple manuals I came to this conclusion. i do know how to make triggers, its just the clamps and metal shield that I am incapable of. plus those piezo elements are a bitch to work with.

[shredfit]

I just thought of something???

 

Perhaps you could use an extra set of dedicated gates(of each drum that requires a trigger) tapping out of the consoles channel direct out for the miced drums... and run the sound module that way. Then patch the sound module outs to new channels on the console... Of course, you would want to check the trigger module manual to see how much input juice it can take... but then you would not need triggers... and it could possibly be easier to set the sensitivity of the triggers just by using the dedicated gates (threshold/release)

 

Hmm? may be worth a try?

[milesdf]

there would probablly be issues because the module is expecting a little bit of contact to ground from the piezo element, where in this case you would be shooting line level voltage into it. idk though i think i saw something in one of the manuals about a similar setup, but i think the module would have to account for this.

[shredfit]

It depends on what type of drum module you have... Like an Alesis DM5 can be sent line level signal and have each triggers input interally adjusted to compensate(ie turned down)... This is very similar to replacing badly recorded drums with this unit... Actually, you would have a lot of control on the console direct outputs by using the dedicated hardware gates...

 

The more I think about this, the more I think it could work pretty well, and a plus would be that if the system you work on is an install... all of the patches could just remain plugged in... and used only when you have to...(ie drummers kit sounds like @ss)

 

[rocksld]

We have the Roland TD8 mounted in our FOH FX case and will occasionally use triggers(I try to use mic's if possible) We've got a set of the DDrum triggers, that clamp on and accept an XLR connection. the Triggers plug into the snake and back at the board, I've got a HOSA snake that is XLR to balanced 1/4". this plugs into the Roland and during sound check when running through the kit, I would set the sensitivities, threshold, etc. on the module.

 

Some of the things I've encountered using triggers is:

 

1. Some drummers have "Dead Ringers mounted under the rims and this can mess with the triggering.

 

2. Some drummers freak out when they see you trying to clamp something on their drums

 

3. The notion of triggered drum sounds is insulting to a drummer who thinks his set is the best kit money can buy(minus the talent for tuning-and again a poorly tuned kit can be hard to dial in with triggers too)

 

4. Some drummers are very curious and want you to trigger their kit.

 

5. Very dynamic players are hard to trigger. You have to spend extra time setting the module for them.

 

Basically,

 

we have them as a back up.

 

Now, if you're a gigging band that does their own sound (which is how we got started with triggers in the first place) setting up the triggers for your kit, this can speed up set up because you don't have to spend alot of time messing with mic's on the drums. And in the case of a small stage where a lot of open mic's can be a problem, well, you can eliminate all those extra mic's needed for the drums.

 

 

Just my 2cents

 

Rocksld

[rxnet]

I have heard the DDrum triggers XLR live with a bar band and they sounded great. The soundman was happy because he was handed one cord to plug into the board...everything was dialed in at the module. This drummer got the idea bacause he does set-ups at the Borgata for all the bands and he said their all using them.....I bought some for my son's kit and they work well...just haven't had the chance to test them live.....

[Centauri]

I have a single analogue module in my FX rack, which gets used too frequently.. I built it many years ago, and is a single channel copy of the old Tama "Techstar" brain, with a gate added to the front end. As most drum tuning problems seem to be the kick, the module is tailored for that, and I trigger it from the normal kick mic. I usually have it patched in line with the kick compressor, so I can just switch it in when necessary. Trying to set the trigger level can sometimes be difficult, though.

 

Cheers

Graeme

[MarkGifford-1]

I've used an Alesis D4 for years. Throw a 57 in the kick, set the D4 to "Studio Kick" and away you go. It allows my system, w/only a pair of single 18" subs, to sound WAY bigger than it should.

 

Once in a geat whe, I'll run into a problem, if the drummer is barely hitting the kick, during a wedding ballad or something, but you can easily adjust the input volume. Never had a problem w/crosstalk or false triggers - it performs flawlessly, makes my job easier and my clients happier...

 

A used D4 is cheaper than a decent kick mic, also.

 

MG

[milesdf]

how about using the alesis module as an insert? if the kick or snare doesnt sound good, i just pop the insert cable in. i could do this with 4 channels, because that module has 4 outputs (more than enough inputs). i could even mix the toms together in the module and have them output on one channel. one channel for snare, one for kick, one for rack toms, one for floor tom.

[roabre999]

We use DDrum triggers into a DM5. Pan snare right, kick left, toms to the aux left & right. Sends 4 signals to the board and you can mix from there. Works well.

[shredfit]

 

Originally posted by milesdf how about using the alesis module as an insert? if the kick or snare doesnt sound good, i just pop the insert cable in. i could do this with 4 channels, because that module has 4 outputs (more than enough inputs). i could even mix the toms together in the module and have them output on one channel. one channel for snare, one for kick, one for rack toms, one for floor tom.

 

 

You would have to wire some sort of mutli-send to single return cable to get this to work with more than one rack tom(impractical IMO).

 

Here is what I would do:

 

Tap off the console direct outs for the miced drums(or you could tap off the console insert send/wire a insert send cable if you compress the channels like some live recording guys do)

 

Plug all console send taps to some sort of dedicated gate... Actually, since no audible audio is passing the gate 2 Behinger Multi-Gate Pro's should work fine(Gasp!)...giving you 8 inputs for drums... then the gate ouputs go to the Alesis Module inputs (ie D4 or DM5)

 

Interally pan the Alesis module to the respected 4 outputs (like robare99 does...) and then use these in 4 new different console inputs.

 

This would then allow you to still use some of the miced drum sound and blend the Alesis module sound in to taste... with some slight tweeking of the gates it should work well with most drummers and drum styles.

 

Good luck.