Members Siggy Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 My son graduates high school this year and has been accepted into the College of Music at Ohio State University. As a voice major he is required to learn to play piano. We have a standard piano in our home but we were discussing the pros and cons of getting him a keyboard to practice on in his room. First of all he's a beginner and I doubt if a lot of flash is necessary. If need be he can upgrade later. What should we look for in a basic model? Full size keys? 88 keys?IS brand a factor? I'm a bassist so what do I know ;-). Any insight is appreciated, Siggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scubyfan Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 Full sized and 88 keys are very necessary, not to mention realistic, weighted keys. Everyone on this forum is biased towards Yamaha in that department, and I think the P-250 will suit your son's needs. http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Array Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 Siggy- Dont let the price of the P-250 scare you away. When most people think of keyboards, they think of cheap casios that they see in department stores. The P-250 is really an instrument that your son can grow with, musically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C. Martin Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 Yamaha p-120:cool: He will love it. Absolutely Superb sounds and action, very portable and lightweight. p120dUdE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MBro2 Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 And if budget is an issue, the Yamaha P60. At $750 it's unbeatable. Doesn't have as many bells and whistles as the P120 or P250, but for piano it fits the bill. ---Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 I would actually recommend against the P-60; the dynamic response from key to sound seems to me to be somewhat unrealistic. It doesn't use as many samples as the P-120 and P-250 and so the sound of the instrument doesn't change accurately from soft notes to loud ones. The difference between your real piano and the P-60 will be much more noticable (read; distracting?) than the difference between the higher-end models in the series. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MBro2 Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 I do not think you are correct. I believe it uses the same keyboard and same samples for the piano as the P120. In any case, the difference would be minimal for all practical purposes save high quality recording. For learning piano, feel is much more important than sound quality. Most living rooms (let alone bedrooms!) do not have the acoustics to make the extra cost worth it. Ditto headphones. Let's not be too elitist. On the other hand, I just sold my P60 to get a P120, so if budget is not a concern, get the best you can afford! The gift of music is priceless. --Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 DON'T HELP THE BUCKEYE!!! DON'T HELP THE BUCKEYE!!! :mad: But in all seriousness, I'd also suggest one of those Yamaha products. Good stuff for a good price. Being a voice major, he won't need more than 61 keys (unless he has crazy Mariah Carey type range), but you might want to get a 88 fullsize just so the keys feel better (ie. weighted) -G University of Michigan School of Music Class of 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by MBro2 I do not think you are correct. I believe it uses the same keyboard and same samples for the piano as the P120. I'm sorry, but you are definitely wrong about that. The P-60 uses a single layer of samples, while the P-120/-250 use three different sample layers to more accurately represent the changes in timbre associated with different dynamic levels. Furthermore it has only half the polyphony, making for obvious note-dropping in runs up and down the keyboard. On top of that, it lacks support for half-pedaling. The P-60 is a thorougly inferior instrument when compared to the P-120 and P-250 and was, in my opinion, a mistake on Yamaha's part. ''The hi quality AWM ( Advanced Wave Memory) sampled sounds feature Grand Piano with 30 different sample points for an accurate digital emulation of the nuances of a Grand Piano. The built-in speaker system is specifically designed to reproduce all the tonal quality of the P60's voices including the built in digital reverb to add the ambience of a concert hall to your living room.'' - www.yamaha.com ''The P-60/P-60S' Piano 1 and Piano 2 presets feature brand-new piano samples taken from a full-sized concert grand piano. These voices have been digitally recorded in stereo to faithfully reproduce the rich, spatial tone of a real acoustic piano.'' - www.yamahasynth.com Thirty sample points is only enough for one layer with three adjacent keys using the same samples. If the P-60 used the same samples as the P-120 and P-250, you can be sure Yamaha would advertise this. Originally posted by MBro2 In any case, the difference would be minimal for all practical purposes save high quality recording. The difference is pretty obvious to anyone who was used to playing on a higher-end digital piano or a real piano. I found the inferior dynamics of the P-60 to be glaringly apparent and rather disappointing. Originally posted by MBro2 For learning piano, feel is much more important than sound quality. Most living rooms (let alone bedrooms!) do not have the acoustics to make the extra cost worth it. Ditto headphones. Let's not be too elitist. I'm not being elitist. The poor quality of the samples directly affects the feel of the instrument and gives a mistaken sense of dynamic response that is different from a real piano, which could be damaging to someone's playing. The difference would be audible in any environment that was quiet enough to clearly hear the instruments, or through a moderately decent pair of headphones. Originally posted by MBro2 On the other hand, I just sold my P60 to get a P120, so if budget is not a concern, get the best you can afford! The gift of music is priceless. Heh, well, IMO you made a good choice. OK, I know this comes over as snobby and all, but I wouldn't have sat here and typed this out if I didn't believe what I said. My own skills are mediocre, but the difference in quality is obvious to me. The P-60 is just not a very good instrument compared to the P-120 or the P-250. IMO the improvements in the P-120 more than justify the additional cost; you can get one for just under $1000. On the other hand, I will concede that the P-60 would definitely be a better choice than the kind of Casio or Yamaha instrument that you'd find in a Walmart. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C. Martin Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 Mike, you are incorrect. The p60 definitely does not use the same sound and feel as the p120. The p60 has only one layer of piano sound, while the p120 has 3 layers of piano sound. The p60 is not expressive. Also, the p120 has sustain, key off, string resonance(sympathetic vibrations), and soundboard modelling. The p60 does not have any of modelling. Also, the "key to sound" connection on the p60 is not good. It does not flow smoothly. As Kiru mentioned also, the polyphony is only 32 notes, so it is very low. So, you have to admit, you are wrong. Again, like Kiru said, if the p60 had the same sound and modelling the p120 does, they would list it. The p60 is a entry level instrument. Although, Yamaha shouldnt of really even bothered to make it. The p60 is better than the portable keybaords though. p120dUdE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scubyfan Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 You just repeated pretty much word-for-word what Kiru said above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C. Martin Posted May 1, 2004 Members Share Posted May 1, 2004 Originally posted by scubyfan You just repeated pretty much word-for-word what Kiru said above. Not really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rintincop Posted May 2, 2004 Members Share Posted May 2, 2004 Yamaha P250 is the best.Yamaha P120 is the next best. I never paid more than $750 for my P120s and $1300 for my P250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scubyfan Posted May 2, 2004 Members Share Posted May 2, 2004 Originally posted by rintincop I never paid more than $750 for my P120s and $1300 for my P250. Those prices are terrific. Where do you buy from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wade Posted May 2, 2004 Members Share Posted May 2, 2004 Originally posted by scubyfan Those prices are terrific. Where do you buy from? I'd sure like to know where too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davehorne Posted May 2, 2004 Members Share Posted May 2, 2004 After you decide what piano you will chose, you also might want to consider renting or renting to buy. That could be more attractive than buying something he may not like after a few weeks. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members davehorne Posted May 2, 2004 Members Share Posted May 2, 2004 Originally posted by rintincop Yamaha P250 is the best.Yamaha P120 is the next best.I never paid more than $750 for my P120s and $1300 for my P250. You friends with a store owner and get things at cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drowse Posted May 3, 2004 Members Share Posted May 3, 2004 I would also look into seeing if the school has a set of practice rooms.. they have them here at UNT, alot of them have pianos in them (some of them are kinda out of tune and etc, but still).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SirGarrote Posted May 3, 2004 Members Share Posted May 3, 2004 Originally posted by drowse I would also look into seeing if the school has a set of practice rooms.. they have them here at UNT, alot of them have pianos in them (some of them are kinda out of tune and etc, but still).. Oh i'm sure they'll have practice rooms. but there's somethign cool about being able to practice in the comfort of your own room. I mean.....do you really want to do your 4-part writing* in a practice room?!? -G *for those of you playing the home game, almost all music majors have to do elementary 4-part writing in their theory classes. While these lessons can theoretically be done without the use of a piano, they are always best learned when they are also performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ebonivory Posted May 3, 2004 Members Share Posted May 3, 2004 Siggy...here are my Yamaha recommendations in order of better to worse, and in order of most expensive to least expensive: P250(around $1800)P120(around $1200)P90 (around $1000) All have realistic feels, all have realistic acoustic piano reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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