Members BryanMichael Posted June 8, 2004 Members Share Posted June 8, 2004 I'm expanding my library. ANyone want to unload some ACID Loops for a fair price? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 9, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2004 BUMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KrazyKarl Posted June 9, 2004 Members Share Posted June 9, 2004 buying them used is just as illegal as downloading them so i'd suggest u put the old emule to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 10, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by KrazyKarl buying them used is just as illegal as downloading them so i'd suggest u put the old emule to work. ER-no. I've contacted SOnic Foundry about this.The liscence basically belongs to the disk holder. The disk is your liscence.Buy the disk from someone, you have the liscence. Technically, SOnic Foundry (SONY now) is not going to be sifting through every song that hits the market looking for a drum hit or loop that was one of theirs- it would be impossible. Secondly, if they DID happen to hear one and then wanted to sue you- they would have to prove that you don't own the disk.Whether I bought it used or not would again be impossible to prove, I could run out and buy a new one and produce the liscence. It's really an honors system thing that is impossible to enforce, track, or prove.But you are 100% wrong about it being illegal to buy it used. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KrazyKarl Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 hm, well i guess i am. just assumed it was like most other software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AgtOrange Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Actually Karl, second sale of software is protected. I believe it's part of the fair use laws, but I'm not sure on that. Most software companies prohibit it in the license agreements, but most of the clauses in license agreements are fairly questionable anyway. When they directly contradict the law, the clause is void and unenforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_resonator Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by AgtOrange Actually Karl, second sale of software is protected. I believe it's part of the fair use laws, but I'm not sure on that. Most software companies prohibit it in the license agreements, but most of the clauses in license agreements are fairly questionable anyway. When they directly contradict the law, the clause is void and unenforceable. yep. right. i asked our past legal dept head here about selling some software i had, and selling used software is A-OK. still, make your own loops...you know...actually create music? yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KrazyKarl Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 CRYTEK grants the User a non-exclusive and non-transferable Licence to use the Multimedia Product, but remains the owner of all the rights relating thereto....The User cannot sell, sublicense or lease the Multimedia Product to a third party.The User can only transfer the Multimedia Product if the recipient agrees to the terms and conditions of the Licence. In this event, the User undertakes to transfer all components and documentation relating to the Multimedia Product. He also undertakes to delete any copy of the Multimedia Product from his computer. In this event, this Licence is automatically and immediately terminated. from FarCry Eula well, to me that seems rather ambiguous. like, it says you can't sell it, then give u the conditions you can 'transfer' it....well i'm no lawyer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AgtOrange Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 That means you can't sell copies. Transfer of license is what selling software amounts to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 oh karl. yer so krayzay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KrazyKarl Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 heheheh @ flukewurm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 10, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Yep. The liscence clearly states that I OWN the disk- but not the content. I have a liscence for the content that I agree to when I install it/use it. I can uninstall it, sell it, and the new user agrees to the liscence. AS far as making my "own" music? Well I play 3 or 4 instruments and I sing, but I can't record a full drumkit here in my bedroom, nor could I play it well enough to justify trying. I also don't have a full orchestra, several sampling keyboards for building pads (whereas I can layer ambient loops and pads and manipulate them with filters and effects to create something new in my audio programs) I can't find authentic Tar, Def, Doumbek and Birembau players locally that are willing to teach me the authentic rhythms of their native lands...oh and then I have to find the instruments themselves.... Loops serve all of these purposes, and I spend hours crafting drumtracks, layering snares, and composing/arranging the parts in my own songs which I also write. Is Peter Gabriel not a real musician because he hires african percussionists to come in and play authentic parts for his songs? What about rock/pop/country/ etc.. musicians that hire an arranger to write string arrangements and then hire an orchestra to play them? What's the difference between using a loop of a percussionist and hiring them to play the same thing anyway? NONE. besides keys, do you play cello, oboe, flute, sax, drums, etc.. or do you use samples? Why not learn how to play the REAL instruments? You know- like a REAL musician? So- not only do you guys not have any clue as to how software/sample liscencing works (you accuse me of doing something illegal...er, no.) But you also imply that I use some loop libraries in my composing that I am somehow not creating my own music. Thanks alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael Yep. besides keys, do you play cello, oboe, flute, sax, drums, etc.. or do you use samples? Why not learn how to play the REAL instruments? You know- like a REAL musician? Whatever means we decide to use to make music doesn't make anyone here more or less a musican than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 10, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by Smokin-Man Whatever means we decide to use to make music doesn't make anyone here more or less a musican than you. That was my point exactly.Just becasue I use loops doesn't make me less of a musician. I just found it especially ironic coming from the keyboard forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael That was my point exactly. Just becasue I use loops doesn't make me less of a musician. I just found it especially ironic coming from the keyboard forum. I hear ya. Most of it is from the software developers themselves who have a legitimate right to protect what is theirs, but then there are others who don't know what the hell they are talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmyzegg Posted June 10, 2004 Members Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael Yep. The liscence clearly states that I OWN the disk- but not the content. I have a liscence for the content that I agree to when I install it/use it. I can uninstall it, sell it, and the new user agrees to the liscence. AS far as making my "own" music? Well I play 3 or 4 instruments and I sing, but I can't record a full drumkit here in my bedroom, nor could I play it well enough to justify trying. I also don't have a full orchestra, several sampling keyboards for building pads (whereas I can layer ambient loops and pads and manipulate them with filters and effects to create something new in my audio programs) I can't find authentic Tar, Def, Doumbek and Birembau players locally that are willing to teach me the authentic rhythms of their native lands...oh and then I have to find the instruments themselves.... Loops serve all of these purposes, and I spend hours crafting drumtracks, layering snares, and composing/arranging the parts in my own songs which I also write. Is Peter Gabriel not a real musician because he hires african percussionists to come in and play authentic parts for his songs? What about rock/pop/country/ etc.. musicians that hire an arranger to write string arrangements and then hire an orchestra to play them? What's the difference between using a loop of a percussionist and hiring them to play the same thing anyway? NONE. besides keys, do you play cello, oboe, flute, sax, drums, etc.. or do you use samples? Why not learn how to play the REAL instruments? You know- like a REAL musician? So- not only do you guys not have any clue as to how software/sample liscencing works (you accuse me of doing something illegal...er, no.) But you also imply that I use some loop libraries in my composing that I am somehow not creating my own music. Thanks alot. Wow aren't you brilliant. Just thought I'd let you know that there is ONE person here who questioned the legal status of what you are trying to do here...and he quickly retracted his statement and said that he wasn't sure. Then ONE person made a comment about creating your own music instead of using loops. I don't see why you are lumping every single person (or at least a group of them) on this forum into a single entity. Funny to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Jimmyzegg ...creating your own music instead of using loops. These two things are not mutually exclusive. What do you mean INSTEAD OF? It was just one thing after another and it's obvious by your post that you also feel that I cannot possibly be creating "my own music" if I am using loops. Again- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AgtOrange Posted June 11, 2004 Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 In reso's defense, he wasn't aware of your situation, and while he may have jumped to a conclusion, it was a pretty reasonable one. I'm sure you'll agree that there's a metric assload of kids out there who throw 4 loops together and call themselves musicians. After a while, it gets pretty easy to assume that anyone asking about loops falls into that category. It may not justify it, but it seemed like an honest mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_resonator Posted June 11, 2004 Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael Yep.AS far as making my "own" music? HEY!!! I WAS JUST JOKING!!! christ, it's a K, S & S (sampler) forum! whoa there, big fella...take it easy! that said....this:Is Peter Gabriel not a real musician because he hires african percussionists to come in and play authentic parts for his songs?What about rock/pop/country/ etc.. musicians that hire an arranger to write string arrangements and then hire an orchestra to play them?What's the difference between using a loop of a percussionist and hiring them to play the same thing anyway?NONE. is TOTALLY wrong. There is a HUGE difference, even as a person who has been working with samples and synthesizers and so forth for mor ethan 10 years (i'd rather not think about how much more)...i appreciate the difference between working with an artist and working with a loop/recordingof the artist but whatever, i am sorry you were offended, guy..i was truly just kidding around. I just post stuff sometimes without really thinking too much about how it appears to other people. my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmyzegg Posted June 11, 2004 Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by BryanMichael These two things are not mutually exclusive. What do you mean INSTEAD OF? It was just one thing after another and it's obvious by your post that you also feel that I cannot possibly be creating "my own music" if I am using loops. Again- Wow, this is the worst case of being taken out of context I've ever been involved in. Would you mind actually reading ALL of my post and not just focusing on half a sentence? I said: "Then ONE person made a comment about creating your own music instead of using loops." I was not making that persons point. I was not even remotely implying that loops do not equal creating music. I was simply repeating someone else's words to show that you were freaking out and grouping this whole board together. In fact, the entire point I was making was based upon the fact that not everyone necessarily agrees with the original poster saying that you should create music instead of using loops. The only thing obvious by my post is that I think you were generalizing everyone on this board because of two people's comments. O and I also think you have terrible reading skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by the_resonator HEY!!! I WAS JUST JOKING!!!christ, it's a K, S & S (sampler) forum! whoa there, big fella...take it easy!that said....this:is TOTALLY wrong. There is a HUGE difference, even as a person who has been working with samples and synthesizers and so forth for mor ethan 10 years (i'd rather not think about how much more)...i appreciate the difference between working with an artist and working with a loop/recordingof the artistbut whatever, i am sorry you were offended, guy..i was truly just kidding around. I just post stuff sometimes without really thinking too much about how it appears to other people.my bad. Well, until I can afford to fly in a troupe of African percussionists that will play traditional instruments in traditional ways and conform to my recording schedule at say 3:00am on a Weds. night- I can use loops-digital recordings of those performances which I would have to record anyway! The end result is the same. I have a high quality digital recording of authentic musicians playing authentic parts. I still find it HIGHLY amusing that in the SYNTH and SAMPLER forum this is an issue- you're entire raison d'etre is to use sounds that are either recordings of real instruments (Samples) or to create "sythesized" sounds.You aren't going to hire a string orchestra to come in so you can sample each individual instrument at various levels so you can create a multilayered sample- that would cost 10's of thousands of dollars and require countless hours of recording, editing, and programming- instead you are going to drop 300.00 on a nice orchestral sample library- the end result is the same. Are you gonna tell me you are missing something because you didn't sit down with each individual string player and work with them as an artist !?!?Bull{censored}. Having been in bands for nearly 20 years and gigged semi-professionally for more than 15 I love working with other musicians, but when it comes down to it- If it's my project, the drummer is going to play parts that either meet with my approval or not for each song, and he is going to tailor his parts to please me or my goals- the end result is that he is going to cut a track one afternoon and I am going to come back a week later and play my bass, guitars, keys, mandolin etc..and sing to the recorded drum track- not to the actual drummer in a room. What if I decide I want to change something later on in the process? I'd love to work with the guy I grew up with, but since he's a professional drummer in Nashville, I don't see flying him up on a whim everytime I want to record a new tune.Loops are a way of working with real musicians by proxy. I can drop in a drum loop CD and start pulling out pieces I like- no different than a drummer sitting there and playing parts for me while I say "yes" "no" :OK! Again- if I were to come back a week later and start tweaking the drum part that someone else played ( a friend perhaps) the end result is that I am manipulating a digital recording of a drummer to suit my song- PERIOD.I don't know why I feel I need to justify all of this to you- I've collaborated with many musicians over the years in bands, on albums, and as a sideman/arranger for other songwriters and I am WELL aware of what it takes - and the positives and negatives- of working with other musicians.Are you going to tell me that composing your orchestral scores are diminished because you aren't conducting a "REAL" orchestra?hmmmmm......ACID allows me 100% control over the composition including the recording schedule I keep, and if I want Mick Fleetwood to play drums on my song..well, I can get him by proxy- I think that was the point of these programs anyway. If any of you are using drum machines in ANY way you have no room to criticize. As for taking money from Sony?jesus- I own Sony DV cameras and gear, I am a Vegas user (3,4, and now 5.0) DVD architect user, ACID user(this is my third version of ACID), Noise Reduction 2.0 user, sound forge user, and I have several loop libraries bought directly from Sonic FOundry (now Sony)Sony has made thousands of dollars from me and I will continue to use their products in my film & video scoring and production, jingle writing, and personal songwriting. I didn't know you all would be so threatened by loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KrazyKarl Posted June 11, 2004 Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 dang i forgot to put my boots on.didn't know i was gonna kick up a sh1tstorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmyzegg Posted June 11, 2004 Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Doucebag I didn't know you all would be so threatened by loops. I thought I made it abundantly clear to you that only 1 person on this entire forum ever said anything negative about using loops. And that person insisted they were joking. Originally posted by DouchebagIf any of you are using drum machines in ANY way you have no room to criticize. Unless of course they are creating their own sequences on the drum machine. If they used the presets in a drum machine it would be equivalent to ACID loops. You obviously lack the skills necessary to communicate with people on an internet forum. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 11, 2004 Author Members Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Jimmyzegg I thought I made it abundantly clear to you that only 1 person on this entire forum ever said anything negative about using loops. And that person insisted they were joking.Unless of course they are creating their own sequences on the drum machine. If they used the presets in a drum machine it would be equivalent to ACID loops.You obviously lack the skills necessary to communicate with people on an internet forum. Goodbye. NO- if you are using a sampled snare drum then you are doing the same thing.Now if you are going to program a basic rock beat, and one is already programmed- why oh why oh why would you re-invent the wheel by programming the same beat over again!?It makes no sense!! It's like a 16th note tambourine groove. Why would you want to re-program it? It's already there! what are you going to do to it? I spent YEARS programming drum machines and my Roland MV-30 with a Roalnd TD-7 module.In fact, my snare sounds (which were just layered Roland samples with some EQ adjustments...the same EXACT thing I can do in ACID only much faster and with a much wider variety of sample choices) have been used on a couple of albums triggered behind the real snare to fatten it up.But if there is already a "toolbox" of standard things like a high hat pattern in 4/4 that has the emphasis in the right place, why would I re-program it!? Just to prove that I can? It's ridiculous.Do you spend all day recreating a piano on your synth or do you use a sample?You can try to re-invent the wheel all day if you want to.have fun.What makes you think that I am not creating my own patterns and loops with ACID? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_resonator Posted June 12, 2004 Members Share Posted June 12, 2004 hey, fella you are seriously freaking me out in a bizarre/creepy kinda way. you do realize that no one is actually arguing with you, except on the you being/not being a douchebag issue, right? freaky. oh god, i gotta try again..just real quick...i don't think anyone is arguing right/wrong..i, at least, was just saying it's pretty stupid to assert that having a musician and having a recording of the musician are not the same thing..as i think others were trying to point out the differences between instruments, like drum machines..that manipulate samples/rom/oscillators,etc.. and loops..not right or wrong, just the whole "stop being an ass" thing. i feel quite sure that it's a crusade we have no hope of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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