Members ckett Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 I am debating between the Nord Lead 2 or the Modular. I have had the chance to play on both the Nord Lead 2 and 3 and understand there slight differences in sound character. Does the Nord Modular have the same raw sound that the Nord 2 has? In a patch consiting of 2 OSC 2 LFOs 1 Filter and detuning, how many voices can one get out of the Modular? One of the things that holds me back a little about the Nord 2 is the sparse modulation matrix. Would there be any reason to just step up to the G2? I have heard examples and think that it doesn't quite have the warmth and rawness of the Nord 2. Experienced Nord users, your input please!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Array Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 I believe that the nord modular G2 gives you the option to use the nord lead style oscillators and filters. Technically you should be able to reconstruct a Nord Lead 2/3. I dont own any Clavia gear though....sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pighood Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 There's a HUGE difference. The Lead 2 is a nice sounding VA with a clothes peg and a pumice wheel. The Modular is unlimited...and deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 i only have experience with the NL2 and the G2.i understand you can get exactly the same sound from the nord mod as the NL2. and of course, you can modulate to your heart's content with the nord mod, and it's much more flexible all around.the price you pay for this is in polyphony.my G2 has a minimum poly of 3 with complex sounds. no direct experience with the nord mod, so i'll let others speak for it, but i understand it's somewhat similar to the G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cybermooks Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Technically there is no difference. They both use the same sound engine. The only real difference is the direction in which each goes. (I'm referring here to the Lead and Modular). The Modular gives you an open-ended programming interface, whereas the Lead is more limited in that respect but optimized for playing and performance in a way you can't with the Modular. The G2 does however considerably close the performance gap in the keyboard version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cybermooks Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 It is really a question of what you want to do. If you want something that is playable and suited for performance you go with the Lead. If you want to get into serious sound design you get the Modular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthwiz Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Yeah that's right there is no reason to get a Lead if you've got a Modular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clusterchord Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by mildbill iand of course, you can modulate to your heart's content with the nord mod, and it's much more flexible all around.the price you pay for this is in polyphony.my G2 has a minimum poly of 3 with complex sounds. mildbill can you perhaps estimate how much polyphony would you have with simple patch with standard voice arhitecture (much like NL2) ? you know; 2osc, 2env,2filt, 2lfo sort of thing... i'm curious if something acceptable for typical 'polyphonic analog' kinda thing like pads n stuff is possible - 8,12 or perhaps even 16 voices ? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by clusterchord mildbill can you perhaps estimate how much polyphony would you have with simple patch with standard voice arhitecture (much like NL2) ? you know; 2osc, 2env,2filt, 2lfo sort of thing...i'm curious if something acceptable for typical 'polyphonic analog' kinda thing like pads n stuff is possible - 8,12 or perhaps even 16 voices ?thanks for a 2osc, etc. type standard patch, you'll probably get 6 to 10 voices if you keep it relatively simple.i made a nice sounding simple patch that emulates a NL2 with sync, pan, FM, etc (no filter), that gets 20 voices.i've also made some very strange sounding patches that make heavy use of the comb filters and get 8 voices from them. when making up a new patch, it's VERY easy to keep adding more stuff and watch the dsp meter go down fast (like the gas gauge on a huge gas-guzzling car).i was very concerned with this at first, but the positive trade off is that you can do so many things that aren't available on other synths. a good percentage of the complicated patches available on the net will get you down to 3 voices, but there are also many that use less resources and manage to sound very good. for someone who wants or needs a minimum amount of voices, there's no doubt they should go with a NL2 or 3.if you are more concerned with programming options than voice count, the G2 (or nord mod) is the way to go. clusterchord: you have a G2 engine, don't you? has your experience with dsp usage been similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by Synthwiz Yeah that's right there is no reason to get a Lead if you've got a Modular. I disagree. I have a Lead 2X and a G2X on the way. Sometimes it may be prefered to play and/or tweak something quick without too many complications. In that regard the Lead is the tool. If you feel like tinkering, then the Modular is the tool. I'm for sure NOT selling my Lead 2X because I have a G2X. Simply put..... Sometimes you feel like a nut (Modular)Sometimes you don't (Lead) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cybermooks Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Yes but the G2X has a considerably improved set of performance features making the Lead redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 the NL2X has a guaranteed voice count of 20, and the NL3 has 24.you won't get that on the G2X even with the dsp expansion.but yep, the G2X looks pretty awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by cybermooks Yes but the G2X has a considerably improved set of performance features making the Lead redundant. Unless you also consider portability a factor. I have more piece of mind traveling with a Lead2X than a G2X because of the difference in cost. Also like mildbill stated, the voice count factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 OK cluster: i just fired up the G2 and made a patch with: 1 oscA,1 oscB,2 mod ADSR2's2 Nordfilters1 keyboard moduleand 1 - 2 out result = 16 voices DSP readings are:VA=22.4Memory=14.8FX=0 oops: i just saw that you wanted 2 lfo's also, so i added 2 lfo A's: results: down to 12 voices now VA=26.2Memory=19.5FX=0 lose 4 voices by adding 2 simple lfo's - see what i mean about watching the 'gas gauge' go down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChetSinger Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Yeah, your VA usage went from 22% to 26%, reducing the number of voices per DSP from 4 to 3. Ouch. On the plus side, you'll stay at 12 voices until the DSP usage goes above 33%. I'll be asking Mrs. Santa for a DSP expansion board this Christmas. Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 i'm not sure how those dsp units work, but i notice that if you have a patch that can play 12 voices, then enable the other slots and load in that patch, it goes like this:1 slot=12 voices2 slots= each slot can play 6 voices3 slots= each slot can play 4 voices and4 slots= each slot can play 3 voices makes sense, yes? however, if you take the factory 'Welcome' patch (7 voices) and load it into all 4 slots, each slot is mono.if you load it into 3 slots, you get 2,2,and 1 voice programs. makes a little less sense, right?i would think it should be 2,2 and 2. MuzikB: keep in mind that the G2X has double the dsp power (and you can get an expansion for the G2, also). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChetSinger Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by mildbill makes a little less sense, right?i would think it should be 2,2 and 2. I don't have my G2 nearby to check the patch load, but I think it works like this: Each voice in the patch takes about 1/2 of a DSP. Also, the patch has a common FX area that takes about 1/2 of a DSP. So if you load it into 1 slot, you get 7 voices: the G2 reserves 1/2 of a DSP for the FX area first, then is able to fit 7 voices into the remaining 3 1/2 DSPs. If you load it into 4 slots, you get 1 voice per slot: the G2 reserves 1/2 of a DSP for the four FX areas first, then is able to fit only 4 voices (1 per slot) into the remaining 2 DSPs. If you load it into 3 slots, it works like this: the G2 reserves 1/2 of a DSP for the three FX areas first, then is able to fit 5 voices into the remaining 2 1/2 DSPs. It tries to balance the 5 voices across the 3 slots, and decides to allocate it as 2, 2, and 1 voice. I think... Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusker Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 I don't think having the (original) modular precludes having a NL2 either. If you like to play the front panel live, and want to switch sounds easily the NM just isn't for you. Yes you could patch up a classic monosynth configuration, but it's hard to tell what you are tweaking and there just aren't enough knobs. There is a place for simple hard-wired synths. If you are spending time in the studio, the NM1 should do all you need. Including all the sounds of the NL2 and a gazzillion more. The comparison with the G2 would be different than a comparison with the NM1. The g2 comes closer to being "everything in the NL2 plus more" but theres two issues . First the polyphony question. Secondly ... there is a huge value to having single function knobs in an improvisational context. It just gives you more courage. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clusterchord Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by mildbill clusterchord: you have a G2 engine, don't you? has your experience with dsp usage been similar? no, no i dont own any VA so far, but KC, NL3 and G2X are ones i'm considering, maybe in 2005. i was interested in polyphony to see if G2X is a viable option live - two extra octaves are welcome addition live, but only if accompanied by sufficient polyphony. otherwise i'd be happy with G2+/-EXP in studio setting. Right now my dealer in Munchen has offered me some pretty good export (outside EU) prices (of course, on top of those figures i pay Croatian VAT and aprox 3-5% for shipping): G2X 1390 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clusterchord Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Tusker: Secondly ... there is a huge value to having single function knobs (in a NL2) in an improvisational context. It just gives you more courage. can G2 have some standardized map for CC control/editing? how does this work? can it be programmed from external knobby device?i think if i had a G2, down the road i'd gladly get something like a 64 knob Doepfer, or similar control surface, to help me increase 'tweaking' UI. thnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by clusterchord .......... can G2 have some standardized map for CC control/editing? how does this work? can it be programmed from external knobby device?........thnx are you referring to a standardized map for sending out cc's, or to be used internally?do you mean the engine or G2 for editing? you've got to get your hands on a keyboard G2 to see what it can do. did you download the editor yet? if so, imagine making a synth with the editor.then you want to make it so you can control the modules for playing live.say you want to be able to control one oscillator - you just 'right-click' on that oscillator or specific function of that oscillator, choose 'assign', pick one of 15 pages (or one of up to 120 total single assignments) and bingo! there it is in the display of your keyboard ready to tweak - it's totally awesome.using some other controller to edit it or to control it would be superfluous. as to having maps to use for controlling other gear, check this out - it's done mainly with some 'midi' type modules: http://www.clavia.com/G2/vst_plugin_controller.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckett Posted October 13, 2004 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Wow, Great stuff!! A few more questions... How much is the DSP expansion for the Original Nord Modular? In terms of sound, does the Nord G2 in terms of its VA emulation sound more like a Nord Lead 3 than a Nord Lead 2? I have found that the Nord 3 has a smoother softer richer sound when compared to the Nord 1 and 2. The Nord 1 and 2 OSCs sound more analogue and vibrant in character though. For some reason the G2 examples just sound very bright and digital. Any more feedback about the sound character differences in the various Nord products concerning analogue emulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cybermooks Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 If I recall I think I paid around $400 for the Modular expansion board. However I distinctly recall it was the last one in stock at the vendor, who was the only one who had it after a fairly comprehensive search. They are near impossible to find now and when they are they are actually higher in price. The best option on that is to buy one from someone who is selling it already installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted October 13, 2004 Members Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by ckett In terms of sound, does the Nord G2 in terms of its VA emulation sound more like a Nord Lead 3 than a Nord Lead 2?I have found that the Nord 3 has a smoother softer richer sound when compared to the Nord 1 and 2. The Nord 1 and 2 OSCs sound more analogue and vibrant in character though. For some reason the G2 examples just sound very bright and digital. Any more feedback about the sound character differences in the various Nord products concerning analogue emulation? IMO, the G2 sounds more like the NL3 than the NL2. Your statements above are just about on point but remember that the G2's have FX and enough other stuff to more than likely produce sounds that are closer to the 2 or 3 as well as easily excede them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clusterchord Posted October 14, 2004 Members Share Posted October 14, 2004 Originally posted by mildbill are you referring to a standardized map for sending out cc's, or to be used internally?do you mean the engine or G2 for editing? ok, for example, i create a synth in G2 - 2osc2filt etc and let's say i hook up a Doepfer 64knob external device. now i want to be able to assign a cc to just about every parameter in this fixed arhitecture G2 'synth'. As a result whenever i load this 'synth' i can quickly create patches for it by tweaking my external controller - with knob PER parameter. This way i'd have my cake and eat it too - G2 power , zillion parameters and (almost) a knob-per-parameter UI like Q or A6 have, no? hope this is not vague.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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