Members Mike51 Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 Well I think I am finally free of the gear lust stage. I don't know but for the past couple of years I have been more focused on gear and setup than on creativity and so forth. For the past few months I have been putting all of my music time into becoming a higher quality player, and to concentrate on arranging, producing, and songcraft as a whole. Alot of the time is also spent designing sounds in Reaktor and on my synths to suit the purposes of songwriting. I look at the old bands like Floyd who made amazing records. Rick Wright really never had that much gear. He had a synth, an organ, and a piano. The guy made great {censored} because he practiced his playing and songcraft. And to be honest, that sincerity is really missing from alot of todays music. Look at what the guy made without a sequencer. Last night I had the priveledge of seeing a great ban reunite in the Jayhawks. They played a great sold out show at Luthers Blues in Madison Wisconsin. They didn't have much on stage, but they sounded incredible. there was an old combo piano organ up on stage that sounded pretty damn good. This band is known for their amazing harmony between Mark Olson and Gary Louris. They haven't played together in ten years, and didn't talk for 6 before that ( I highly recommned any alternative fans to pick up their Hollywood Town Hall or Tomorrow the Green Grasd records). Last night's show confirmed my thoughts. Those guys don't really worry about new gear. They just concentrate on making great music. I feel I have kind of fallen into a sort of consumerism trap if you will - where I am led to believe the latest synth will turn my music hobby/career around. I do enjoy talking about new gear though, I don't see that as a problem. More along the lines of I felt I needed new gear to make good music, which couldn't be further from the truth considering I have a bunch as it is. When is the last time you heard a record that was sincere and not contrived? It's not too often. I can say Funeral by Arcade Fire, maybe a Ghost is Born by Wilco, maybe the last M83 record. I guess my point is it feels good to be free. I think the U.S. is getting too commercialized and corporate, and it is filtering down into the musical arts. Just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Analog Kid Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 You know if ADSR had made that same post about a year ago, they would never have had any trouble with pissing people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Analog Kid Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 Then again, the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd -they all went to great lengths to push the gear further. And they spent small fortunes on equipment, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted February 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 Sure the recording equipment was big bucks. But you could easily make the song demos for Abbey Road without all that money. That wasn't exactly sonic experimentation. The experimental Floyd stuff was simple , like running a piano through an amp or using your effects pedals for some out there effects. Were not talking 20 synthesizers, 5 different computer seq/audio app hosts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members radiospace Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 Originally posted by Mike51 Last night I had the priveledge of seeing a great ban reunite in the Jayhawks. They played a great sold out show at Luthers Blues in Madison Wisconsin. They didn't have much on stage, but they sounded incredible. there was an old combo piano organ up on stage that sounded pretty damn good. This band is known for their amazing harmony between Mark Olson and Gary Louris. They haven't played together in ten years, and didn't talk for 6 before that ( I highly recommned any alternative fans to pick up their Hollywood Town Hall or Tomorrow the Green Grasd records). I saw Mark Olson backing up his wife Victoria Williams last year. The show had the same vibe...great musicianship, simple arrangements, old, well-used gear. I've resisted a lot of "good deals" in the last year (i.e. Native Instruments Komplete for $499) specifically to avoid getting more bogged down with more technology to learn, more things that get in the way of making good music. Still, a Virus TI sure would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members manisedap Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think most people start to push to get more out of gear once they made a lot of money. But before all that, they just concentrate on their skills first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Analog Kid Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 Originally posted by Mike51 Sure the recording equipment was big bucks. But you could easily make the song demos for Abbey Road without all that money. That wasn't exactly sonic experimentation.The experimental Floyd stuff was simple , like running a piano through an amp or using your effects pedals for some out there effects. Were not talking 20 synthesizers, 5 different computer seq/audio app hosts, etc. Wasnt there a moog modular on Abbey Road that was used for Because and other songs? All those Telefunken and Nuemann mics. A slew of Vox amps. Every audio FX box built to that point. Plate reverbs (real ones) Neve decks- Floyd stuff wasnt simple either... at least for the time. Im not sure it would have been possible if they had just stuck to the farfisa and telecaster. There was a LOT of gear... I dont know what you mean exactly if youre trying to call them minimalist in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Analog Kid Posted February 20, 2005 Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 Maybe youre just trying to say that you could re-create what they were doing then now on a simple PC? probably... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted February 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 ""Floyd stuff wasnt simple either... at least for the time. Im not sure it would have been possible if they had just stuck to the farfisa and telecaster. There was a LOT of gear... I dont know what you mean exactly if youre trying to call them minimalist in that regard."" They really were in terms of songcraft. In terms of performing live and recording no they were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted February 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2005 ""Wasnt there a moog modular on Abbey Road that was used for Because and other songs? All those Telefunken and Nuemann mics. A slew of Vox amps. Every audio FX box built to that point. Plate reverbs (real ones) Neve decks-"" Those are all in the recording process. They didn't need them to write the songs themselves. Anyone can take good songs into a high quality recording studio ( which I agree is required). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted February 21, 2005 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 "" I saw Mark Olson backing up his wife Victoria Williams last year. The show had the same vibe...great musicianship, simple arrangements, old, well-used gear. "" Im not a big fan of Victoria's style of singing. I almost walked out of an Olson/Victoria show a couple years ago because of her. Olson writes some great songs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by Mike51 Alot of the time is also spent designing sounds in Reaktor This is hardly a limited sonic pallet. I wouldn't really call it getting past the gear at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Learning67 Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 Technology can never replace good songwriting. How much technology you have is irrelevant to writing a good song. Production, however, tends to favour technology. And dont kid yourself, The Beatles, Pink Floyd etc used the very best technology for their recording/production. When Pink Floyd was broke, living out of a van (so to speak) and recording things like Ummagumma, they only had the high end Farfisa. When they weren't broke, and recording Medal (the one with One Of these days) and Dark Side ofthe Moon, they used higher quality stuff like a VCS-3. So if your point is that good songwriting has fallen by the wayside--mostly--in the modern recording industry....you may be right, although lots of crap came out back in 1970 too...we've just forgotten most of it. Meaning that, there may be the same level (mostly) of good songwriting going on...its just overshadowed by the crap. And then again, song writing teams like Lennon and McCartney dont grow on trees. If your point is, why do I need all this technology? The answer is you dont, but it sure is fun to have isnt it? And really, much of what is being done today is to use technology in new ways for production which often just imitates (emulates) what a producer like G MArtin, B Wilson, etc would have done with real instruments. Now you can do it all yourself....sort of. G MArtin could write a string quartet part in matter of minutes. You can play a string part on a synth that wuld convincingly simulate a string part.....but if it was transcribed, would it work effectively with a string quartet? No subsitute for musical skill and talent. Technology will not compensate for that. But it still is fun to have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tjwett Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 best thing i ever did for my music was to ditch the computer, at least when i'm not at work. all my personal music is done on the hardware now and i'm much happier and way more satisfied. the computer makes me lazy, sucks the life out of my writing and makes me use my eyes way too much. that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr.rob Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 It's amazing, imo, how if you write a killer song and work really hard on the instrumentation and arrangement how that instrument that a second before just didn't sound good enough suddenly sounds almost too good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rauzi Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by mr.rob It's amazing, imo, how if you write a killer song and work really hard on the instrumentation and arrangement how that instrument that a second before just didn't sound good enough suddenly sounds almost too good to be true. and therefore, my philosofy, the thing for you is suddenly turned into a musical intrument. before that, it was just a commercial product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 Originally posted by Mike51 Well I think I am finally free of the gear lust stage. I don't know but for the past couple of years I have been more focused on gear and setup than on creativity and so forth. For the past few months I have been putting all of my music time into becoming a higher quality player, and to concentrate on arranging, producing, and songcraft as a whole. Alot of the time is also spent designing sounds in Reaktor and on my synths to suit the purposes of songwriting. I look at the old bands like Floyd who made amazing records. Rick Wright really never had that much gear. He had a synth, an organ, and a piano. The guy made great {censored} because he practiced his playing and songcraft. And to be honest, that sincerity is really missing from alot of todays music. Look at what the guy made without a sequencer. Last night I had the priveledge of seeing a great ban reunite in the Jayhawks. They played a great sold out show at Luthers Blues in Madison Wisconsin. They didn't have much on stage, but they sounded incredible. there was an old combo piano organ up on stage that sounded pretty damn good. This band is known for their amazing harmony between Mark Olson and Gary Louris. They haven't played together in ten years, and didn't talk for 6 before that ( I highly recommned any alternative fans to pick up their Hollywood Town Hall or Tomorrow the Green Grasd records). Last night's show confirmed my thoughts. Those guys don't really worry about new gear. They just concentrate on making great music. I feel I have kind of fallen into a sort of consumerism trap if you will - where I am led to believe the latest synth will turn my music hobby/career around. I do enjoy talking about new gear though, I don't see that as a problem. More along the lines of I felt I needed new gear to make good music, which couldn't be further from the truth considering I have a bunch as it is. When is the last time you heard a record that was sincere and not contrived? It's not too often. I can say Funeral by Arcade Fire, maybe a Ghost is Born by Wilco, maybe the last M83 record. I guess my point is it feels good to be free. I think the U.S. is getting too commercialized and corporate, and it is filtering down into the musical arts. Just an opinion. Great post Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr.rob Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 I think with a lot of electronic music stuff gets so anal, it's as if you're erecting a building or some {censored}. But what about the sensuous nature of sound, the passion of a soulful performance?Now, I come from a Guitar backround, and went to synths from there. One thing I know is that when you are a highly disciplined ensemble of musicians are in the zone and playing music you love it is the best feeling in the world-- the experience totally clobbers programming and studio tweaking, and when you are in the audience watching such a performance you can feel all sorts of energies that lead you to a self trancending inward journey, and you share in the joy of pure creative spirit, of musicians seizing the moment and working together to do a dance of rhythm and melody. This to me is what music is all about. But tweaking in the studio with the softsynths and such is also very rewarding-- it's just that its reward only comes when you have the songs, because that's where the spark comes from. And when you are writing songs you will feel enthusiasm and inspiration because you are releasing things you've pent up inside. Once you have a bunch of songs written out suddenly your studio is transformed. You don't have to have the greatest chops then, because you know what you're after and you have time to get one thing right, then the next, piece by piece.This is very different from the live performance, but also very rewarding. That is, writing a song and seeing it come to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sleepin' Deeper Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 I bounce back and forth between the two extremes. I play live all the time, but never on keys or synths...I play bass and a lot of what I do is pretty simple music gear-wise: folk, bluegrass, blues, etc. I've been doing some gigs recently that are 100% acoustic, no PA, nothing but my bass fiddle, a guitar and 2 voices. At the same time I also really dig electronic stuff like TD and Kraftwerk. I mess around with that sort of stuff at home. I just recently upgraded my home setup to simplify things, got rid of my old master keyboard and outboard modules, effects and mixer to get a Motif ES which cam do the whole job. Now my setup is just the Motif and a Roland digital multitrack. While it would be FUN to have more gear, I'm not limited by my gear at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted February 21, 2005 Members Share Posted February 21, 2005 I bounce back and forth between the two extremes. I play live all the time, but never on keys or synths...I play bass and a lot of what I do is pretty simple music gear-wise: folk, bluegrass, blues, etc. I've been doing some gigs recently that are 100% acoustic, no PA, nothing but my bass fiddle, a guitar and 2 voices. At the same time I also really dig electronic stuff like TD and Kraftwerk. I mess around with that sort of stuff at home. I just recently upgraded my home setup to simplify things, got rid of my old master keyboard and outboard modules, effects and mixer to get a Motif ES which cam do the whole job. Now my setup is just the Motif and a Roland digital multitrack. While it would be FUN to have more gear, I'm not limited by my gear at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A D S R Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 Lusting for gear is bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sammas Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 I know exactly where you are coming from Mike. I'm sick of spending my time on the net drooling over things i might be able to buy... It hit me the other day that i have all the sound creating devices i'll ever need. Sitting on the shelf above my computer are the boxes for Nuendo, Absynth 3, Reason 2.5, Fruityloops 4, Melodyne and a stack of plugins and great freewares. So to finish my Gearlust for a few years i'm just buying things to make music making easier... less frustrating and more fun... I've ordered a new computer, an East west Sound library for orchestral sounds, a nice weighted midi keyboard, and an 01X to help control it all... As of next week, its all music making... no more internet... no more kicking the computer because its hit the wall, no more excuses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 Originally posted by Mike51 For the past few months......I guess my point is it feels good to be free. Great post Mike51, truly great. Everyone who reads this ought to give serious thought to saving that text to disk, printing it out, and hanging it on the wall. cheers mate, that kicked ass!aeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aeon Posted February 24, 2005 Members Share Posted February 24, 2005 Originally posted by mr.rob I think with a lot of electronic music stuff gets so anal, it's as if you're erecting a building or some {censored}. But what about the sensuous nature of sound, the passion of a soulful performance? Not all music is about passion and soul. After all, human beings have many levels of conscious awareness that music may resonate with...the physical, the emotional, the intellectual, the intuitive, the spiritual...and all are valid, and necessary, if we are to truly witness music express the human experience and potential. As it concerns electronic music, one must keep in mind that certain styles of electronic music are grounded in the celebration of technological/musical tools in and of themselves, and the progress of the human mind's ability to abstract, conceptualize, and create new tools. But perhaps on a deeper level, those styles, with their clockwork rhythms and "soulless," perfect lock-step sequences, and algorithmic melodies borne of code as opposed to the vagaries of the human heart, are perhaps the most accurate musical expression of the human being. Why do I say that? Consider: the aspect of human awareness that results in our seeing the world as a collection of discrete things, as a world of cause-and-effect, as opposed to a unified process, also results in the human ability and characteristic to compare, to contrast, to count, and to measure. As such, the metered pulse of a transistorized rhythm may just be the truest and purest expression of the human experience. Don't get me wrong, I too see communion and connection among musicians playing instruments together as a premier example of the human experience...but to deny the (at this point) deep culture that is electronic music is to do yourself, and other musicians a great and grave disservice. be well,aeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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