Members jazzed Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 I still hope it's PowerPC. No transition is better than a good transition IMO. Besides...I still think that the PowerPC architecture is better than x86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zarquin Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by jazzed I still hope it's PowerPC. No transition is better than a good transition IMO. Besides...I still think that the PowerPC architecture is better than x86. So do i.x86 and x86-64 should have died a long long time ago... why it is still alive is beyond me, especailly when there were a lot better architecuters like Alpha and the various MIPS'. ah well... I don't care who the chips are fabbed by, if its PowerPC compatible, its all cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by zarquin So do i. x86 and x86-64 should have died a long long time ago... why it is still alive is beyond me, especailly when there were a lot better architecuters like Alpha and the various MIPS'. ah well... I don't care who the chips are fabbed by, if its PowerPC compatible, its all cool... One reason x86 killed off everything else is because its still around, fully backward compatible though 80386. I personally have a distaste for legacy support when it compromises performance.Intel PowerPC? I doubt it. Intel core with PPC translation? Maybe. Seemless transition? Definitely! You can be assured Apple employees will not be sleeping for the next couple years. Now give me a 4GHz crotch burning Powerbook already! (with a compatible Logic 7 and Virtual PC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 apple retains the right to have ANYONE make powerpc chips. this might not be a move to x86. i sincerely hope it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Imagine this:A dual core Intel based system. One core has the PPC "emulation" layer, one core is standard x86. You boot into MacOS X, and seemlessly launch Windows applications (through a rootless Windows similar to current X11) and have full performance of both platforms' applications.That's probably not possible, but it sounds cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by suitandtieguy apple retains the right to have ANYONE make powerpc chips.Cite your sources please! As far as I know, IBM retains most of the rights to PowerPC which they based on their POWER processor, along with Apple. Motorola was some how let in on the deal seeing that their 68k RISC processor was outdated, but I don't think they have any IP on PowerPC, besides stuff like Altivec. I guess Motorola could refuse to give up rights to Altivec. IBM could put up a huge stink. PPC will have to be reverse engineered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zarquin Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 A dual core Intel based system. One core has the PPC "emulation" layer, one core is standard x86. You boot into MacOS X, and seemlessly launch Windows applications (through a rootless Windows similar to current X11) and have full performance of both platforms' applications see, i wouldn't like that at all. I dislike windows. I dont' want it anywhere near my nice unix-like box. ... its like... ok, ill chill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by zarquin see, i wouldn't like that at all. I dislike windows. I dont' want it anywhere near my nice unix-like box. ... its like... ok, ill chill Unfortunately, there are some vital applications I need under Windows. OrCAD, Xilinx, and PIC/AVR tools for starters. They don't run terribly slow on my G4 1.3GHz under Virtual PC, but I wouldn't want to run it on an iBook or Powerbook.Full speed Windows applications would be a huge selling point. Imagine the gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 http://www.transmeta.com/crusoe/codemorphing.html Read about TransMeta's approach to "code morphing" as they call it. Upon detecting critical, frequently used x86 instruction sequences, CMS invokes a Translator module that recompiles the x86 instructions into optimized VLIW instructions, called Translations. The native translations reduce the number of instructions executed and results in better performance. Apple could take a similar approach to PPC on processor X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phineas Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by urbanscallywag http://www.transmeta.com/crusoe/codemorphing.htmlRead about TransMeta's approach to "code morphing" as they call it. Apple could take a similar approach to PPC on processor X. I have 2 Sony Picturebooks, the first gen Crusoe C1VN 600 and the very last Japan only C1MZX 933 (second gen Crusoe).Here's the skinny: if you do any repetitive small data load calc, the 600 runs about the speed of an Athlon 1GHz. The 933 runs about 2-2.5 times faster.However, when you need to process a stream of massive data--video, sound, you do start to bottleneck and the speed can go down to maybe 40% on the 600 (ripping to mp3 for example). The MZX will probably slow to about 70% of original speed. The flipside is if you run a game in it for the hell of it, the C1VN 600 can run Porsche Unleashed very fluidly (about 25fps) at 640x480. You can see the Code-Morphing learn its ideal algos and actually speed up after a few seconds. I haven't tried this on the MZX yet.Still, for data intensive tasks, I don't think this is a fully evolved solution. But it does show great promise. Naturally, by the time this is fully mature, Intel will probably have migrated to RISC anyway. It should be noted that Sony dropped Crusoe because it failed to live up to expectations of speed and power savings. Although from my perspective I love my Picturebooks even more than my Powerbooks . They are IMHO the neatest notebooks ever made, and if you open one up as I did to upgrade the POS Hitachi(pre-IBM) HD in the VN, the motherboard is a work of Japanese art...double sided no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keyman_sam Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Firstoff, (another noobish question) how is IBM surviving out there? no one i know of buys computers from them. everyone goes to dell/ something else. and now, apple dumped his girlfriend. i mean, comeon, how CAN they survive?? whats the thing that gives them money/profit so that they can run companies?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by keyman_sam Firstoff, (another noobish question) how is IBM surviving out there? no one i know of buys computers from them. everyone goes to dell/ something else. and now, apple dumped his girlfriend. i mean, comeon, how CAN they survive?? whats the thing that gives them money/profit so that they can run companies?? Please read the article I posted. "Even as a chip maker, I.B.M. has moved aggressively beyond the PC industry, focusing on making the processors for video game consoles from Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony, and specialized chips for other uses, like the Internet router computers made by Cisco Systems and cellphone technology by Qualcomm. I.B.M. also uses its Power microprocessors in many of its own server computers, which run corporate networks."So you see, IBM is no longer focusing on the Personal Computer. Rather, it is making it's money with the Impersonal Computer--the server, the router, the console.That's ironic--IBM coined the term "PC". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeebus Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by keyman_sam Firstoff, (another noobish question) how is IBM surviving out there? no one i know of buys computers from them. everyone goes to dell/ something else. and now, apple dumped his girlfriend. i mean, comeon, how CAN they survive?? whats the thing that gives them money/profit so that they can run companies?? The bulk of their business isn't coming from the home PC user.They produce chips and components used in all kinds of products, and they also do alot of consulting for corporations in various industries, they sell and maintain big servers and provide training, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Port Rhombus Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by Array Dude, Microsoft could just start handing out free copies of windows for anyone that wants it. When the competition is dead, they would just start charging again. Dude, no way in hell can Microsoft give away free copies of Windows like that. There would be serious, slam-dunk anti-trust charges against them (again). When you have a monopoly in a particular market, you cannot simply give away your products for free in order to kill competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members protues9 Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 http://news.com.com/Apple+to+ditch+IBM,+switch+to+Intel+chips/2100-1006_3-5731398.html?tag=nefd.lede Apple switches to Intel chips. Quite a few people think it seems to be a hoax though. I dunno... Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SynthBaron Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7852 "Jobs is demonstrating a build of Mac OS X 10.4.1 running on a system equipped with a 3.6GHz Pentium 4 processor, notes MacWorld's live coverage. The same or similar system - running a preview release of OS X 10.4.1 for Intel - is to be made available for US$999 today by Apple developers and will ship in about two weeks." :-)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Rosetta will allow PPC apps to run on Intel-based Macs, transparently.Bam! Seamless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Jobs introduces Wolfram's CEO, who said they ported Mathematica 5 to Intel-based Macs in 2 hours. Working version in 2 hours flat. Only about 20 lines of code changed.Now that's impressive! I want one now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 News Xcode generates a single "universal binary" that supports both processors.Ok, I laid it out for you guys a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Intel is passionate about their products, according to Steve Jobs. Intel CEO Paul Otellini invited on stage to talk about Apple's transition. "The world's most innovative computer company has teamed up with the most innovative chip company." Otellini plays "Toasting the Pentium" commercial from 1996.Hahahah that's great. That was a really nice way for Apple to eat their words about their anti-Intel past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members urbanscallywag Posted June 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/wwdc/05/ Is where I'm getting the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phineas Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 This is FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, the Great Unanswered Question. Will the port of Tiger work on non-Apple flash bios? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Originally posted by Phineas This is FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!Now, the Great Unanswered Question. Will the port of Tiger work on non-Apple flash bios? I thought Mac OSes were compatible with the x86 architecture for a couple of years now. Yes? No? Some Mac-head I know was bemoaning that recently. At any rate, I guarantee you that Mac will essentially become MS Jr., just a software and sundry company. They won't be able to keep their architecture closed now. I also guarantee that it's only a matter of time before you see on PTP networks "APPLE_TIGER_w_ROM_FLASH-WORKS GOOD!-H20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Yeah, it sounds like a good thing to have OS X running on generic x86 boxes...UNTIL you realize that this opens the problems that have dogged Microsoft for YEARS concerning hardware compatibility. Apple has such a tight control over the hardware that the OS has an easy time of dealing with what's connected...including something as simple as the sound card (a big deal for us KSS folks).All you need to screw that up big time is have some third party chipset or peripheral that does something unusual and the whole system is toast. Windows and Linux jocks know exactly what I'm talking about.This is indeed bad news for me in particular because I was all set to buy a G5 this summer (giving my G4 to my daughter for college) and now it sounds like next year the G5 will be heading for the scrap heap. I have an aversion to buying a $1500 machine that might not be sustainable for at least 5 years (i.e. a potential OS upgrade that will require an x86 processor).I really hope Apple can spin a convincing story in the next few weeks as I have to buy something by mid August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chao Posted June 6, 2005 Members Share Posted June 6, 2005 Nooooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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