Getting serious about monitors...

[urbanscallywag]

I finally have the cash and a worthy interface to invest in some monitors (and room treatment).

 

I know I should go and listen to all the speakers at the store. I will, but I would like real world input and I believe after a week my ears will be trained to the new monitors anyhow.

 

I want something that goes LOW! I'm into experimental, drum n bass, and I like to know what's going on in the subsonic realm.

 

So I guess I want something that rap/dance producers like. I know I get along with the KRK sound, I listened to the V8s a while ago. I was curious about going down the used V8 road, or new RP8 with the RP10 sub. I've read about people regretting RP8 instead of V8, but what about the sub?

 

I live in a house, so respecting neighbors isn't a requirement. Although I'd like to give my bedroom some treatment (and basstraps) I don't think I need something too high end because the room won't push the speakers anyhow. The sub would be nice to be able to turn off.

 

I've also listened to an ADAM setup and Mackie 824s but I think that's a bit out of my price range.

 

So...

[urbanscallywag]

Give me liberty, or give me BASS!

 

My budget is $700ishshshshshsh plus or minus and yeah.

[urbanscallywag]

Hmmm, reading in the Recoring forum now (searching KSS brought not much) and it seems like V6s are well respected.

 

I wonder if I could find the sub that goes with them.

[Dave Bryce]

 

Originally posted by urbanscallywag I've also listened to an ADAM setup and Mackie 824s but I think that's a bit out of my price range.

Okay...

 

[speaker pimp mode]

 

It can be reasonably argued that your monitors are the most important thing in your studio.

 

They are the tool with which you evaluate and carve pretty much every sound that you make. They are the window through which you hear what your music and all of your gear sound like.

 

Many folks think nothing of spending a few K on synths, mics, pres, compressors, etc...and then skimp on the thing that shows what they sound like. Good monitors will re-introduce you to all of your gear, and to all of the music you've been listening to for years.

 

Also, a good set of monitors will very well likely last in your studio longer than any other piece of equipment.

 

Get good monitors, even if you have to save for a while to do so. It's worth it.

 

[/speaker pimp mode]

 

BTW...this ain't just a rap - I've believed this for years. This philosophy and my search for my perfect set of monitors is what led me to my current gig.

 

dB

ADAM Audio USA

[urbanscallywag]

Cool to hear. Obviously going with new monitors is probably a smart deal, considering the damage they could be subjected to with an abusive owner!

 

Glad you like the RP8s. I just may go with the exact setup you'll have tomorrow. There is a store on eBay that seller the combo, I'll have to see if its actually a good deal.

 

I'm excited! Weeeee.

[carbon111]

The ADAM ANF-10s retail at about $375 or so a pop. But then you'd need an external amp.

 

The Event line has some nice stuff in that price range. I've heard good things about the TR-8 but haven't heard them myself.

 

Previous to my ADAMs I had some Tannoys. The powered Reveals are about $700 a pair. They were good speakers but they were slightly colored so it took a while to "learn" the speakers so that mixes translated well. Much better than an Alesis or Beringher though! I would still recommend them in that price range.

 

Hope that helps somewhat.

[urbanscallywag]

Believe me, I'd love those ADAM monitors. I'm still a student. I live at home. My room is setup horribly, and I'm sure the bed does wonders for sound.

 

For that reason, I'll wait till I get my own place. Then I just might have to go with the setup they have a Analog Haven. Especially if I live in an apartment.

[urbanscallywag]

I would really like active. I have some random monitors and beastly amps, and I want that space!

 

I've got time to learn monitors for translation. The only place mixes will be translated any time soon is my car! Being a hobbiest is an advantage.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by urbanscallywag Then I just might have to go with the setup they have a Analog Haven. Especially if I live in an apartment.

Dood...that setup is like $8k.

 

There's much less expensive ADAMs than that...and Dyns...and Gens...

 

BM5As are pretty great, and they're less than $1k, I think.

 

dB

ADAM Audio USA

[urbanscallywag]

Wow, people rave over the KRK V6s. I wonder if they would be degraded by an RP10S.

[urbanscallywag]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce Dood...that setup is like $8k. There's much less expensive ADAMs than that...and Dyns...and Gens... BM5As are pretty great, and they're less than $1k, I think. dB ADAM Audio USA

A graduation present, if you will. Some people get a BMW, I'll get 3 speakers.

 

Really, that setup made me smile. Actually it was more like drool. Every Voyager on display should have that rig.

 

I was thinking of Gens but I read low end is weak. I hate to sound like a basshead/child, but its very important to me.

[urbanscallywag]

Hmmmm, I think used V6s for real monitoring and mixing and an RP10S for giggles might be taking the lead.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am a firm believer that you don't need high end speakers to get the job done. It is just the way it is. I like RP8's better than just about anything else. I have heard Adam's and know they are very pretty sounding speakers. That is the problem. A lot of high end speakers are too pretty sounding. Hell. High end Home Stereo companies have been using emit and ribbon tweeters for years. There is a reason Yamaha NS10's are so popular. They actually make mixing easier. I have mixed on Genelecs, Haflers, JBL's and Events and always found the mid's were scooped. The RP8's have a nice punchy midrange that transfers nice and makes mixing easy plus they have more low end than NS10's.

[BOBA JFET]

You also want to be careful that the monitors you choose don't have an exaggerated bass response, though. That'll just end up having the opposite effect from what you want - your mixes won't have enough bass.

[urbanscallywag]

Originally posted by BOBA JFET You also want to be careful that the monitors you choose don't have an exaggerated bass response, though. That'll just end up having the opposite effect from what you want - your mixes won't have enough bass.

Hence a V6 with proper response, and a sub for fun.

 

Again, exaggerate the point that I'm a bedroom studio ENGINEER then musician. Haha!

[Dave Bryce]

 

Originally posted by urbanscallywag Really, that setup made me smile. Actually it was more like drool. Every Voyager on display should have that rig.

Like I said...god monitors make all the difference in the world on every single sound you make, and every single sound you check out that anybody else makes.

 

 

I was thinking of Gens but I read low end is weak. I hate to sound like a basshead/child, but its very important to me.

So get a sub...

 

BTW - fat bass is fun to listen to, but frequently lies to you when you're trying to do a mix that'll translate well. More people than not who have a sub in their studios (and hi fi setups, for that matter) have them set incorrectly - usually too much volume. They should actually be somewhat subtle. It's kinda like a compressor - if you can hear it working, it's probably set wrong.

 

BTW - the newer (8000 series) Gens have better bass than the older ones, IMO.

 

dB

ADAM Audio USA

[urbanscallywag]

Originally posted by burster1 I am a firm believer that you don't need high end speakers to get the job done. It is just the way it is. I like RP8's better than just about anything else. I have heard Adam's and know they are very pretty sounding speakers. That is the problem. A lot of high end speakers are too pretty sounding. Hell. High end Home Stereo companies have been using emit and ribbon tweeters for years. There is a reason Yamaha NS10's are so popular. They actually make mixing easier. I have mixed on Genelecs, Haflers, JBL's and Events and always found the mid's were scooped. The RP8's have a nice punchy midrange that transfers nice and makes mixing easy plus they have more low end than NS10's.

Then you have people like Autechre complaining about NS10s not being able to even reproduce the music they're making. I think I'd fall into this category.

[urbanscallywag]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce Like I said...god monitors make all the difference in the world on every single sound you make, and every single sound you check out that anybody else makes. So get a sub... BTW - fat bass is fun to listen to, but frequently lies to you when you're trying to do a mix that'll translate well. More people than not who have a sub in their studios (and hi fi setups, for that matter) have them set incorrectly - usually too much volume. They should actually be somewhat subtle. It's kinda like a compressor - if you can hear it working, it's probably set wrong. dB ADAM Audio USA

Right, so I guess the sub would have to have an easily accessible switch so I could turn it off during mixdown, at night, when I have a headache, etc.

[Dave Bryce]

 

Originally posted by burster1 I am a firm believer that you don't need high end speakers to get the job done. It is just the way it is.

...and you're not wrong. If that philosophy works for you, great - you save mucho bux.

 

 

I have heard Adam's and know they are very pretty sounding speakers. That is the problem.

Disagree. ADAMs are very honest speakers. If you've got a pretty mix, they'll sound pretty. If you have an awful mix, it almost hurts to listen to them.

 

This is not just the rap of the ADAM guy - they're pretty well known for this.

 

 

A lot of high end speakers are too pretty sounding.

That I do agree with...some of the hi-end speaks do make everything sound nice, and more than a few of them are in fact scooped in the mids...but then again, some people love that.

 

Transducers are terribly subjective...

 

dB

ADAM Audio USA

[Guest Anonymous]

I would not say the RP8's add bass but, the 8" woofer puts out more bass than a 6". I would steer clear of 6" monitors since they will sound tiny alone. Modern music has more low end in it so you will enjoy 8" woofers more. The sub will be a added bonus. This is from years of mixing and finding out what works. I also had some Tannoy Reveals and found out the 6" woofers could not handle the bass load on there own. Go with 8"s. Go with 8"s. :D

[Dave Bryce]

 

Originally posted by urbanscallywag Right, so I guess the sub would have to have an easily accessible switch so I could turn it off during mixdown, at night, when I have a headache, etc.

Depending on how you have it set up, yes.

 

If you use the satellites full range and just use the sub for a bit of extra low end love, then you can do that. If you use a x-over/bass management system and roll the sats off below 80-85 Hz, maybe not so much (depending on what sats you end up with, of course).

 

dB

ADAM Audio USA

[urbanscallywag]

Originally posted by burster1 I would not say the RP8's add bass but, the 8" woofer puts out more bass than a 6". I would steer clear of 6" monitors since they will sound tiny alone. Modern music has more low end in it so you will enjoy 8" woofers more. The sub will be a added bonus. This is from years of mixing and finding out what works. I also had some Tannoy Reveals and found out the 6" woofers could not handle the bass load on there own. Go with 8"s. Go with 8"s. :D

Witness my next paycheck:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7344019742

 

I'll be back next winter for my ADAMs.

[urbanscallywag]

 

Originally posted by Dave Bryce Depending on how you have it set up, yes. If you use the satellites full range and just use the sub for a bit of extra low end love, then you can do that. If you use a x-over/bass management system and roll the sats off below 80-85 Hz, maybe not so much (depending on what sats you end up with, of course). dB ADAM Audio USA

Ohhhh.

 

burster1: does the sub have a crossover then, or one of the monitors?

[urbanscallywag]

I know there is bass cancelling in my room. I think I'll have to build some traps.

 

Any tips?

[carbon111]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce Disagree. ADAMs are very honest speakers. If you've got a pretty mix, they'll sound pretty. If you have an awful mix, it almost hurts to listen to them.

 

Exactly! The last thing you want in a studio is a "flattering" speaker. You want as flat a response as possible. The kind of speaker you want in a studio is not what you'd want for your hi-fi.

 

This is exactly why I finally "bit the bullet" and saved up for the ADAMs. I figured if I have some synths that cost a few grand than I should have some speakers that can do them justice, not some $125 a pair specials - Your monitors are the main link in your setup. I finally heard some of the crud in my mixes and was able to treat it...I couldn't believe the difference in my resulting mixes!

 

Speakers like the NS10s and other "grotbox" speakers like Pyramids have another purpose entirely...to see how well your mix translates to even "crappy" speakers like those on televisions, radios, etc. - studios don't use those by themselves. Some Bose "patio speakers" serve the same purpose in my studio.