Members Nicky Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 A while back there was an amazing amount of posting on the Oasys and how it was so overpriced, etc. How come nobody seems to mind how stupidly overpriced the Nord Stage is? I mean this instrument is priced over a $1000 more than a S90 ES and the S90ES, construction wise, is far superior to the Stage. There was all this complaining about how the Oasis had all this repackaged features. Well what does the Stage have?.....the same organ as the electro(some have said the leslie is worse), a one ocs synth section, similar rhodes, clavs, and wurlys, and new piano samples (which so far have received luke warm reviews ). And it's got a light, cheap feeling Fatar action..... and now one owner has posted it can't transmit the full range of midi velocity. I know the Oasis is in a different price range but the Stage also seems way overpriced for what it is, especially when you compare it to an S90 ES and a RD700sx. Incidentally, I'm not just looking to bash Clavia because I'm very interested in trying this keybd out myself. Your thoughts...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 it's because everybody here except for you is involved with a hush-hush conspiracy involving the Swedish monarchy and a centuries-old secret society founded by piano manufacturers in the middle ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRain Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Why I'm responding to this, I'm not entirely sure.. but my opinion is that it is a matter of marketing. People here claim that what their complaint is (regarding the Oasys) has to do with it's cost/feature set relation. However I feel it has more to do with how the Oasys appears to people and what Korg stands for in the music industry. The Triton by Korg has always been seen as a pop keyboard.... a massively produced machine designed to make music making simple and to churn out mass marketed type music. Many who consider themselves synth purists look down on such systems. The Oasys is far more powerful. I think some people still see it as an extension of the Triton line and the Korg mass appeal... yet it is priced out of the reach of most people in this market. Therefore it seemingly has two contradictory factors working against it. The Nord Stage is a niche synth that appeals to musical and synthesist purists.... and does not really have pop appeal. It has a very old style interface with what seems to be solid construction and reminds of old style electronic instruments that were build to last for a very long time. This appeals to a niche market that has the money to purchase such and instrument and such purchasers would probably expect to use the intstrument for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 13ghostsofscoobydoo Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Where do you guys live to be able to even try out a Nord Stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Originally posted by program_insect it's because everybody here except for you is involved with a hush-hush conspiracy involving the Swedish monarchy and a centuries-old secret society founded by piano manufacturers in the middle ages. Code 52, program_insect....YOU BETTER RUN, BOY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 don't worry, I left the secret memory-erasing melody on his answering machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted November 2, 2005 Members Share Posted November 2, 2005 Clavia is a small niche company with few employees and so must charge a premium price for their gear. Whereas the Big 3 (Korg, Yamaha & Roland) can afford to discount their gear more. Of course, sometimes they get greedy and overcharge anyway (Oasys) but sometimes the price is right or even a bargain (the Triton Extreme with the Legacy bundle). I love my Nord Micro Modular! Bought it for $300 when novamusik.com was blowing them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by Birdienumnum Clavia is a small niche company with few employees and so must charge a premium price for their gear. Whereas the Big 3 (Korg, Yamaha & Roland) can afford to discount their gear more. Of course, sometimes they get greedy and overcharge anyway (Oasys) but sometimes the price is right or even a bargain (the Triton Extreme with the Legacy bundle). Sorry, This is an illogical argument. True manufacturing cost differences primarily come from economies of scale, not the number of employees. Smaller companies with fewer employees actually have less costs that have to be recovered (their payroll costs are lower). All of these MI companies are actually fairly small, with the exception of Yamaha (due to their non-MI divisions). Even with Yamaha, I am not sure how much their MI division benefits from the other divisions. No one is "getting greedy". Companies who have been in business for a while are pretty good at predicting sales volumes: a high-volume item (like a guitar tuner or inexpensive keyboard [like you can buy at Best Buy)] can be sold at a lower per unit profit margin than a more expensive product. The same is true with cars. Honda charges a higher profit per unit on their premium cars (Acura) than on their Honda line -- they just don't expect to sell as many Acuras as they do Hondas. Also, recovery of R&D costs must be considered. One of the reasons why the Triton Extreme is such a "bargain" relates to the fact that the Triton series has been around since 1999, and the "base" R&D costs were recovered a long time ago. All of these keyboard companies (really any company) have to make a reasonable return on their investment. They price products based on their real costs and on what they think is a reasonable price: -- Clavia believes they have priced the Nord Stage appropriately -- Korg believes they have priced the OASYS apppropriately Bottom line -- if you think a product is worth its price then buy it; otherwise, don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danatkorg Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by Birdienumnum Clavia is a small niche company with few employees and so must charge a premium price for their gear. Whereas the Big 3 (Korg, Yamaha & Roland) can afford to discount their gear more. I have no idea why you'd think that. The entire MI industry is very small, which means that we all need much higher margins than commodity consumer items (like computers, for instance). Originally posted by Birdienumnum Of course, sometimes they get greedy and overcharge anyway (Oasys) As has been said many times already, Korg uses a fairly standard pricing formula for all of our hardware synthesizers, which is primarily based on the cost of the parts. The OASYS uses roughly the same pricing formula as, say, the Triton. Its parts are *much* more expensive than those in the Triton (the OASYS touch-screen costs about as much as an entire Triton Le, for instance), and it's priced commensurately. Best regards, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by danatkorg I have no idea why you'd think that. The entire MI industry is very small, which means that we all need much higher margins than commodity consumer items (like computers, for instance).As has been said many times already, Korg uses a fairly standard pricing formula for all of our hardware synthesizers, which is primarily based on the cost of the parts. The OASYS uses roughly the same pricing formula as, say, the Triton. Its parts are *much* more expensive than those in the Triton (the OASYS touch-screen costs about as much as an entire Triton Le, for instance), and it's priced commensurately.Best regards,Dan I'm sorry Dan. I shouldn't have used the word "greedy". Obviously Korg is trying to make a return on their investment and you can't blame them for that. I certainly don't mean to insult anyone at Korg. I do think the term "white elephant" would be more appropriate, as in, a retail item that is exceptionally expensive to produce and for which a good profit margin might be difficult to obtain at a reasonable price for the consumer. All companies have white elephants from time to time. Our only disagreement is over the word "reasonable". Personally I feel Korg should have risked a loss by pricing the Oasys no more than $2000 above the next tier (the Triton Studio). Say...at $6000? That's the honorable thing to do with a white elephant, especially for a big & sucessful company that can take a loss, at least in my opinion. But then again, I know little about business. I just think we have an aesthetic difference. I don't like the words "luxury item" and "musical instrument" in the same sentence. It rubs me the wrong way, because I feel that "affording the best" is an oxymoron. If I were wealthier I could see buying an Oasys for $6000 used. Anyway, I certainly didn't wish to hurt your feelings. Best regards, Birdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by MartinHines Bottom line -- if you think a product is worth its price then buy it; otherwise, don't. Well, we can certainly agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danatkorg Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by Birdienumnum I'm sorry Dan. I shouldn't have used the word "greedy". Thank you. Originally posted by Birdienumnum Personally I feel Korg should have risked a loss by pricing the Oasys no more than $2000 above the next tier (the Triton Studio). Say...at $6000? That's the honorable thing to do with a white elephant, especially for a big & sucessful company that can take a loss, at least in my opinion. But then again, I know little about business. The honorable thing, in my opinion, is to continue to both support current customers and make new products. To do so, a company needs to sell products at prices which sustain the business. In the long term, selling a product at a loss isn't good for anyone; witness the recent sad story of Hartmann, for instance (who will hopefully still emerge from the experience!). As far as I've heard so far, we are not having any great difficulties selling the product at the current price, which - as mentioned before - comes from the same basic pricing model as the Triton. I'm not very close to sales, however, so I may not have the latest info. Finally, as noted before, the price of OASYS is substantially the same as, for instance, the original prices for the K2500 and K2600, as well as many previous top-of-the-line synths from various manufacturers. So, while it is indeed expensive, the price is not an anomaly. Originally posted by Birdienumnum I just think we have an aesthetic difference. I don't like the words "luxury item" and "musical instrument" in the same sentence. That's cool; we all have different criteria for how we spend our money. As I've said before, a talented person can make great music regardless of their gear. Also, Korg has every intention of continuing to offer gear at a wide range of price points. There are a large number of high-priced musical instruments and devices, however, from guitars to effects processors to microphones to synthesizers. There may be exceptions, but in general they are high-priced because, as with OASYS, they are expensive to build; if they are successful (and not all are successful, of course), it is probably because they do one or more things exceptionally well, and/or because they do something unique. I'd like to think that OASYS fulfills those requirements - and from what I've heard from customers at the demos that I've attended, and what I've read of the reviews so far, I'm not alone in that opinion. Best regards, Dan Phillips [edited for grammar] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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