Members DancingApe Posted March 16, 2006 Members Share Posted March 16, 2006 Is there any features from the MS-2000 that are missing from the new Radias? For certain, a lot of stuff has been added, but there is also a possiblity that features have been removed or replaced - not just added. If there are removed features Korg probably will not tell us about them - so we have to find them by either buying the synthesizer (wich can lead to dissapointment) - or, study from the manual what really differs the two. I started looking at pictures of the Radias & MS-2000 frontpanel and have found some things that seems missing. http://www.sequencer.de/pix/korg/radias.jpghttp://media.zzounds.com/media/brand,zzounds/MS2000-8e79be6fa30599acee5c2310bb569410.jpg What about "Vox Wave" & "DWGS" fromthe Oscillator 1 section for instance? What about effects? 30 effects is available in the Radias, but is the nice flanger and tape-echo effects from MS-2000 present in the Radias effects, or have they been replaced by different (cheaper?) flanger & echo effects? In other words - Is the Radias a beefed up MS-2000 on steroids with new features, or a new synthesizer with some added functions and looks from the MS-2000? Give me your ideas.. And it would be great if a Korg representative could answer these questions. Before even thinking of buying a Radias i want to be sure that the Radias can do all the sounds that was possible with the MS-2000. Also, my last question - the hint about "Oasys" aliasing-free technology in the Radias, what does that cover? Aliasing on the PCM sounds, or on the basic SAW/Square/Sine waveforms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endmusik Posted March 16, 2006 Members Share Posted March 16, 2006 I know this was discussed before - there should be another thread floating around here - but from what I saw at NAMM and some input here, this isn't at all a sibling of the MS2000 - it's an entirely different engine, with elements of the Electribe series. I think that Korg used some of the UI elements from the MS2000 to add a bit of familiarity to the Radias, but what's under the hood is a different beastie entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DancingApe Posted March 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2006 But is it anything that indicates that for example the filters will sound different between the two models? I mean, sure, you have 2 filters with the radias, and new possibilites because of that, but you can also choose to use only one filter (Single mode) just like on the MS2000.So using one filter, should not a 12db Lowpass sound the same on the Radias & MS2000?? So lets look at the options, 1. The filters are from EMX.Emx has, LP, HP, BP, BP+ Does not really match the Radias list of filters 2. The filter are from AL-1/Oasys Possibly, but if that were the case i think KORG woud probably brag about it in the product information to generate more interest since the Oasys is considered a highclass synthesizer. 3. The filters are completley new, not featured in any other product. Not Likely - this would be a costly process, and if this were the case we would probably hear about "our great new filters" 4. The filter are taken from the MS-2000 engine. Match! Both the Radias & MS2000 seem to feature exactly the same setup of filters.LP12, LP24, BP12, HP12 - and it says in the Radias that they selfresonate, just like the MS-2000 did. The basic waves like Saw, Square, Triangle probably does not sound much different to the MS-2000, hopefully just with less aliasing this time.And i just found out that the DWGS from MS2000 OSC1 section is also available in the Radius, In the distortion section, waveshaping has been added, but the old distortion from Ms-2000 seems to still exist under the name "Drive", at least the description of it is exactly the same as of the Distortion in the MS-2000 manual. The envelopes proably wont sound any different, the only news would be the adjustable curves on the Radias. So the only questionmarks for me, is regarding the effects really... EQ seems to be the same on Radias & MS2000, the only difference is that they are featured with knobs on the Radias while they can be found in the menu on the MS-2000. I have done some deep investigation in the manuals, and i belive that the synthcore still is a MS-2000, but with added effects, PCM waves, additional filters, additional envelopes, additional effects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChipCurtis Posted March 16, 2006 Members Share Posted March 16, 2006 Originally posted by DancingApe I have done some deep investigation in the manuals, and i belive that the synthcore still is a MS-2000, but with added effects, PCM waves, additional filters, additional envelopes, additional effects... No, that doesn't sound right to me. I have read all the threads talking about this synth (following NAMM in January), and it was confirmed from Korg reps that the VA engine is spun-off from the new Oasys, and that it is not just a re-hashed MS-2000 except for the UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DancingApe Posted March 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2006 Originally posted by ChipCurtis No, that doesn't sound right to me. I have read all the threads talking about this synth (following NAMM in January), and it was confirmed from Korg reps that the VA engine is spun-off from the new Oasys, and that it is not just a re-hashed MS-2000 except for the UI. What parts of the engine would be a spun-off from the Oasys? All of it?I doubt it. Point me to some proof please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members endmusik Posted March 16, 2006 Members Share Posted March 16, 2006 Dan from Korg posted some info in this thread (there's a ton replies here too) http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1140444&highlight=Radias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sinner6 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 The Radias engine uses MMT (Multi Modelling Technology) that was origianlly featured in the EMX. The filters in the EMX and ESX sound much better (to me) than the MS2000 filters. Not as one-dimensional, more fluid. If you've heard them side by side the difference is readily apparent (to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpieket Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by DancingApe 4. The filter are taken from the MS-2000 engine.Match!Both the Radias & MS2000 seem to feature exactly the same setup of filters.LP12, LP24, BP12, HP12 - and it says in the Radias that they selfresonate, just like the MS-2000 did.Almost, but not exactly the same: on the MS2000 filter type selection is discrete, and on the Radias it is continuous. Filter type is even available as a modulation destination. You don't see that very often! -Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danatkorg Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by DancingApe What parts of the engine would be a spun-off from the Oasys? All of it? The main VA oscillator is similar to that of the OASYS AL-1, except that the AL-1 has lower aliasing with osc sync. - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerrythek Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Where to begin... The RADIAS is not an MS-2000 plus more stuff. A LOT of it is new code - yes that seems costly in time etc. but that's what we did. With the new DSP system and a dedicated chip for effects they tell me the total power is roughly 10x that of the MS-2000. And we used that power to redesign most of the engine. Now it is simply easier for us to build on the MMT designator in our marketing, as we have inherited aspects from the EMX, but again, most of the technology has been improved compared to it. Some of the synthesis algorithms come from there, but now are played by the high-quality OASYS osc. design. So concepts like the Unison Mod (6 voice detuning from a single note of polyphony) come from EMX, as does the VPM design. But the Filters are completely new, not taken from either the EMX or the MS-2000. As you mention, Waveshaping is new. The Drive is now a completely variable process, not the simple Off or full ON of the MS-2000. Envelope speeds and shapes are redesigned. There are more, but from home tonight I don't have access to all the documentation etc. So I'll add some more info tomorrow. OK? Regards, Jerry Korg Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpieket Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 I sure hope Korg figured out how to sync to midi. I could never get the LFO and modulation sequencer on my MS2000 to sync properly to midi clock. If I remember correctly, it would lock to the tempo just fine, but it would always be a few clock ticks behind all other equipment. I reported it to Korg, sent them an example MP3 and instructions on how to reproduce, but they never acknowledged the problem, nor fixed it. Eventually I dumped the MS2000 for this reason. -Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members morten'J Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Here is a simple Sweep with different Reso : http://www.sequencer.de/mp/radias/sweep.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DancingApe Posted March 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by Jerrythek Where to begin.......Regards,JerryKorg Guy Wow, thanks alot for that information Jerry! Even though its not a beefed up Ms2000 it sure sounds promising i must say. And if you have the time, please add some more info :-) What about the Mod effects from the MS2000, can the same Flanger effect be found in the effects of the Radias? And with the MS2000, all the delays (Stereodelay, Crossdelay, L/R Delay), had the behaviour of a tape delay when messing with the delay time. I really liked this! In the Radias list of effects there is a "Tape Echo" to be found, but does this mean that using one of the stereo delays will not produce the cool effects that was possible with the MS2000 delays?? And my last question Originally posted by Jerrythek "The Drive is now a completely variable process, not the simple Off or full ON of the MS-2000." Ok, that also sounds great. But is it the same distortion effect from the MS2000 but now with a "completley variable process", or is it a new, different sounding type of distortion with "completley variable process"??? I really liked the sound of the MS2000, distortion so thats why im asking. Thanks again for replying! You have only increased my interest in this instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Umbra Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 I sure hope Korg figured out how to sync to midi. I hope so too. The MS2000 will also loose timing if your doing things like running the arp and attempting to modulate the filter. The midi timing on the MS2000 really sucks if the radias is anywhere near that then It was under spec'ed DSP-wise for sure so saying you only have 10x the power.... I really liked the sound of the MS2000, distortion so thats why im asking. I agree, if it's a different distortion that will really suck. That distortion is perfect, especially when you sweep a bandpass filter with it on. Personally I expected more from the next generation MS2000, it doesn't seem to compete very well with the current generation of high end VA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DancingApe Posted March 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by Umbra I hope so too. The MS2000 will also loose timing if your doing things like running the arp and attempting to modulate the filter. The midi timing on the MS2000 really sucks if the radias is anywhere near that then It was under spec'ed DSP-wise for sure so saying you only have 10x the power.... I agree, if it's a different distortion that will really suck. That distortion is perfect, especially when you sweep a bandpass filter with it on. Personally I expected more from the next generation MS2000, it doesn't seem to compete very well with the current generation of high end VA's. What is it more that you expect? For me, sound is the most important in the end. And although i dont know how the Radias sounds, the interface sure looks sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members morten'J Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Sound und Rcording(german mag) has a Review of Radias and they like it only bad point was that the keyboard not has aftertouch. The is a demo on the cd and at moment I am not going put it on the net. And the demo(the was a very good filtersweep,wavestationlike sound,strings,organ and drums with bass and arp) is very very good and I love the sounds of it even the drums. I am going to have RadiasRack. :love: :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtrance Posted March 17, 2006 Members Share Posted March 17, 2006 Jerry, Thanks for the posting in this thread. Many (most?) people don't realize how complex, say, filter algorithm design is in digital synthesis, how complex modeling is, and how many different results you can get. A 12db lpf is not a 12db lpf is not a 12db lpf, and on upward from there. The Radias is a very tempting instrument; I'd like to try it in person sometime at the local store. I'm sure it's achieved a new, and different kind of musicality from previous Korg instruments. It is not a "re-hash." Good luck with it, and thanks for all your hard, inspired work all these years! rt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dxdreamer Posted March 18, 2006 Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 at that price... no aftertouch... it's just funny and i guess the synth itself doent respose to AT... just like the ms2000.. i guess it bassed mostly on ms2000 other than their top end workstation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpieket Posted March 18, 2006 Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 Originally posted by dxdreamer and i guess the synth itself doent respose to AT... just like the ms2000.. i guess it bassed mostly on ms2000 other than their top end workstation Guess again. Or rather - read the manual. Channel aftertouch is available as a modulation source. (p147) -Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtrance Posted March 18, 2006 Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 dxdreamer proves web illiteracy is rampant, in more ways than one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted March 18, 2006 Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 FWIW Sound on Sound have reviewed the Radias - most of the points raised on this forum they have confirmed - non-recessed jackfield PITA, small knobs, keyboard lacks aftertouch - but sounds excellent (that is the important bit isn't it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DancingApe Posted March 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 Originally posted by Mook non-recessed jackfield PITA, isn't it?) What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted March 18, 2006 Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 Take a look at the last page of this thread... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1140444&perpage=20&pagenumber=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DancingApe Posted March 18, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 I can understand how it would be better to build it so the cables would not occupy extra space, but then again i want to use this for music and not for designing a room. Give me a great sounding synthesizer and im happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 13ghostsofscoobydoo Posted March 18, 2006 Members Share Posted March 18, 2006 The SOS review seems pretty positive overall, but the last sentence of the summary is pretty...well...OUCH! "Even as its features and price tag urge you to take it seriously, those flashing lights and that one-finger performance power suggest a slightly more frivolous, partying nature." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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