Scales up the neck?

[babybatter]

I practice my scales somewhat statically....that is, I practice one scale across the fretboard, from low e string to high e and back down.

 

Can anyone reccomend some way to start practicing some scales or anything that go up the neck?

[babybatter]

I see Funky has shown positions of the same scale up the neck....I guess I have 2 questions in regards this...

1) Is there any kind of general rule or guide to moving up the neck given these mapped scales? Should I just pick a way to hit all 7 notes of the scale, and map one out myself?

2) Is it a good idea to practice ascending scales for one key, or should I just worry about transition scales if im changing from one scale in one key to another key?

[telepaul]

An instructer gave me assignments out of the Mick Goodrick book "Advancing Guitarist" awhile ago. The first thing he has you do is paractice improvising over the seven modes that are derived from a C major scale on one string up and down the neck. Eventually all the strings all the keys, then sets of two or three strings. Its a good excersise. Just an opinion but I think it holds more value then trying to do scales up and down each string. I had to record the vamps I jammed over as part of the assignment. The Goodrick book has a ton of info; lots of ideas btw.

[deeperquest]

Originally posted by telepaul An instructer gave me assignments out of the Mick Goodrick book "Advancing Guitarist" awhile ago. The first thing he has you do is paractice improvising over the seven modes that are derived from a C major scale on one string up and down the neck. Eventually all the strings all the keys, then sets of two or three strings. Its a good excersise. Just an opinion but I think it holds more value then trying to do scales up and down each string. I had to record the vamps I jammed over as part of the assignment. The Goodrick book has a ton of info; lots of ideas btw.

I'm on it .... thx telepaul

[ralphster007]

I'd just like to add that playing scales 'straight' is an inferior process... try mixing it up. I got this from 'Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar' by George Van Eps.

1-2-8, 1-3-8, 1-4-8, etc.
1-7-8, 2-7-8, 2-7-8, etc.
7-8-1, 6-7-1, 5-6-1, etc.
1-2-7-8, 1-2-3-7-8, 1-2-3-4-7-8, etc.
1-3, 2-4, 3-5, etc.
1-4, 2-5, 3-6, etc.
1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5, 5-4, 6-3, 7-2, 8-1, etc.

I've very happy to see this forum, btw.

[Fred5]

I suppose by up and down you mean staying in one
position.? Sometimes that's the most effective
way of looking at the fretboard. One downside is that the fingerings are different on almost all strings, and when the fingerings repeat they are not the same notes. Another is that you are limited to a two - plus one or two notes - octave range.

Ways out of this? Subdivied the six strings into
subsets. Think of them as three pairs or two sets
of three. Generally speaking - depending on fingerings - you then get either a position shift
every second string or every third string. This is accomplished by a slide, two consecutive notes played with the same finger. The benefits being more symmetric patterns and extended range. The "three pairs" way of thinking is often the most practical and used subdivision, compare to the blues box.

Did that make sense?

[evan_02]

i think that scale PATTERNS are a horrible waste of time, and while good for one's technique, are no good for actualy music. i wish i had never learned patterns.
how i think scales should be taught:by their SOUND!!! music is an aural art, not a visual one. some of the greatest improvisers have been horn players, who have NO visual aspect of their instrument.
try this: remember Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do from gradeschool? thats your major scale. now play any open string you want, ignore patterns, and use your ears to walk up that Do Re Mi.... once you can do that starting on all six strings, pick any note on the six string and try doing it in that position. now do the 5th, 4th...etc. what you are doing is getting your ears to learn what the fretboard sounds like, which IMO is a million times better than patterns. eventually you may see yourseld playing in patterns, but hopefully your ears will be guiding your fingers.
also try singing along as you play the major scale.
once you get the major scale drilled into your ears, you should have an easier time hearing your licks as you play them.
to do dorian all you do is start on Re and go up to Re again.
i think this method stops most people from doing stupid {censored} like running up and down the scale over and over when they solo because they play by ear, not by eye.

[Quart_Jester]

I tend to run up and down through the modes of a scale in arpeggios and try to hear the characteristic of each one. As well as change the notes each time or ascending and descending string to string so I

[Smokey]

Hey BB, if you know all the notes on the neck it is much easier. Take E for example. I can think of 5 patterns in the blue scale rooting from the E notes between the 1st & 12th frets. Try soloing over some E progressions working in the vicinity of each root. Eventually you can combine these little working areas with slides or bends maybe, to make one big pattern out of them all. When you do that you are golden.

I think it's cool how a riff on one string can sound totally different on another. It's a good reason to move around alot on the fretboard from pattern to pattern, root to root, finding the sweet spot for that particular riff.

Good luck. I'm still working on this stuff myself, hopefully one day I can be Little Funky or something.

[bob-ingram]

It's easier to show than to write, so I may not be clear on this but I'll try.

Think of a "position" as being 5 frets. Start with your index finger on the 1st fret, your other 3 fingers will cover the next 4 frets, 2-5. So you could play a major scale all on the low E string like this....fingers numbered 1-2-3-4.

1(F) 2(G) 4(A) 1(Bb) 2© 4(D) 1(E) 2(F)

As you play the first 3 notes, roll your fingers up behind the fretting finger. By the time you reach the Bb where you need to jump the 1st finger up to the 6th fret Bb, it'll be close behind.

These type of "linear" scales are common in string instrument playing. A guitar is a percussion instrument, violin/cello are string instruments. Student o strings are expected to be able to play a lineal scale as easily as a "position" scale where you're hand stays in the same position on the neck.

Practice these linear scales slowly and cleanly. Once you have the major scale down, practice other scales. You'll find that you're playing becomes more fluid and you rely less on positions.

[Cassius]

if there is no reason to move, ie no need for a slide or something, then its fine. Personally i like the flow slides can give so i end up moving about. So long as you are playing what you want to hear and arent just slipping into muscle memory fragments its all good.

[thamiam]

Originally posted by bob-ingram A guitar is a percussion instrument, violin/cello are string instruments.

I'm confused. How is a guitar not a string instrument?

[ralphster007]

Originally posted by thamiam I'm confused. How is a guitar not a string instrument?

I disagree with Bob. The guitar is a complete instrument.

[bob-ingram]

Originally posted by thamiam I'm confused. How is a guitar not a string instrument?

The string family is violin viola cello and bass, all played with a bow or fingers. Guitar is a percussion instrument derived from the Lute family, the piano is also a percussion instrument.

Go figure.

[babybatter]

Excellent notion, Bob. Linear scales it is.

I think the key to 'knowing' the fretboard will then be for me:

1) My 13 common scales:
The 7 modes, pentatonic major and minor, harmonic and melodic minor, whole tone and diminished scales. I will practice all of these across 6 strings, and then I hope to learn them all UP EACH STRING (at least to the 15th fret. Maybe up to the 19th or something for the top 3 strings)

2) Ear and memory training on the fretboard....memorizing where each note, and going backwards and forwards. Calling a note, and playing it. Playing a note and naming it.

Theres obviously lots of other things to learn besides the fretboard, but this should do it.

Any comments/recomendations/criticisms?

[thamiam]

Gonna have to disagree with you, bob.

The piano is a percussion instrument. The guitar has to be a string instrument. I'm not sure about the lute, but if it was plucked instead of struck, it was a stringed instrument. The dulcimer on the other hand, is percussion.

Otherwise violins would be switching families depending on whether they were bowed or played pizzicato.

I could be wrong, but I'd want to see it written down somewhere official before I believed it.

(BTW, if I'm not wrong, than does Stanley Jordan play a percussion or string instrument? )

[babybatter]

Im not in any position to agree or disagree with the history of the guitar.

But I know when Im playing well, I do play the instrument like a violin. Or it least, it starts feeling more like a violin than an old jazz box you just pound on.


Hmmm. Now I want a big assed hollowbody to compliment my PRS.....

[StratKat]

When i was trying to become a shredder (before i ruined my hands) i was using the following method for practicing scale.

Play the scale in its most compact frm where your hand moves very little up the neck.

Next i play the entire range of arppegios in that scale from that same position.

Next i play the scale using the more expanded fingering where i use more of the frets and move the scale up the neck as i play.

Then i play all the arrpegios to that movement.

Then i played the scale in a linear form on one string and follow with the arrpegios.


I would do this for several scales in both major and mnor forms. its benefit is the ability to immediately identify any form of any scales arrpegio and chordal notes for any style of playing. In country you may tend to stay in one place near the nut. In shredding you move up and back down the neck. In jazz you use all the above and the linear forms as well and jump around.

It also helped in getting myself to where if a string broke i could IGNORE it completely and still play solos without much difficulty.

I attribute my failing in shredding to my hard head in regards to trying to be too fast too soon for too long without proper warmup and stretching exercizes for the hands. Not in the methods of scales i practiced. I simply abused my hands in an effort to get fast too quick with way too much time spent on speed.

[babybatter]

Thanks stratkat. Im just starting to realize im very guilty of 'speed too soon' and im realizing that this has been severely detrimental to my guitar skills. Hopefully, I can still come full circle though...im really starting to slow down, calm down get comfortable and listen.

BTW Bob Ingram:

Im totally devoted to linear scales now. I cant beleive ive gone this long without them. Thanks a TON.


ps - dammit! From that damn F scale, I keep digressing into 'Joy to the world!'