Jazz progression w/scales ~~ am I correct?

[sansunzeste]

Ok so i've got this somewhat, at least to me, complicated jazz progression. I believe i've discovered out how to determine the correct scales for improvising. Tell me if I'm right.

 

| Amaj7 | Dmaj7 E7 F#7 C7 | Bm7 | Bdim E7 |

A major -------------------------------->

 

| Amin7 | D7 Gmin7 | C7 | Fmin7 Bdim E7 |

A blues ----> G blues ---> Fblues Eblues

 

And if this is correct would there be a "better" way to do it? A more logical way? One that sounds better? Etc...

 

Thanks a bunch in advance!!

 

Nels

[TubeAddict]

A minor

[Jazz_Funk_42]

 

Originally posted by sansunzeste | Amaj7 | Dmaj7 E7 F#7 C7 | Bm7 | Bdim E7 | A major -------------------------------->

 

 

 

Everything follows the key of Amaj throughout, except the F#7 to C7, and the Bdim. For F#7 you'd be in the key of Bmaj, and for C7 you'd move to the key of Fmaj. As for Bdim, a B diminished whole tone scale would sound good.

 

 

 

...BTW, I just realized F#7 to C7 is a tritone sub after reading this thread.

[Reeko2]

 

Originally posted by Golgo13 Everything follows the key of Amaj throughout, except the F#7 to C7, and the Bdim. For F#7 you'd be in the key of Cmaj, and for C7 you'd move to the key of F#maj. As for Bdim, a B diminished whole tone scale would sound good. ...BTW, I just realized F#7 to C7 is a tritone sub after reading this thread.

 

 

F#7 is not in the key of CMaj (there are no sharps or flats in CMaj). F#7 is the V chord of B Maj.

 

Since the F#7 C7 Bm7 Bdim E7 do not fit in any one key, you probably could play some Mixolydian (F# Mix C mix B mix) type stuff.

Or, you could try playing arpeggios over that chord progression based off of each chord.

 

Over the Amin7->D7 I would play A dorian (since it could be thought of an a ii -> V progression in Gmaj.) The same with Gmin7 -> C7 , this is ii -> V in Fmaj, so play G dorian.

[Jazz_Funk_42]

Originally posted by Reeko2 F#7 is not in the key of CMaj (there are no sharps or flats in CMaj). F#7 is the V chord of B Maj. Since the F#7 C7 Bm7 Bdim E7 do not fit in any one key, you probably could play some Mixolydian (F# Mix C mix B mix) type stuff. Or, you could try playing arpeggios over that chord progression based off of each chord. Over the Amin7->D7 I would play A dorian (since it could be thought of an a ii -> V progression in Gmaj.) The same with Gmin7 -> C7 , this is ii -> V in Fmaj, so play G dorian.

 

Man, I screwed that one up.

I better have my guitar in front of me next time I try to help. Anyway, I made the nessecary corrections above.

[thamiam]

Are you sure the D chord in the second bar is a Dmaj7?

 

I'm not saying it's not possible, but that would mean that the piece is modulating for 1 beat of 1 measure.

 

What is this progression from?

[TubeAddict]

Originally posted by thamiam Are you sure the D chord in the second bar is a Dmaj7? I'm not saying it's not possible, but that would mean that the piece is modulating for 1 beat of 1 measure. What is this progression from?

 

What is wrong with playing the IV as a maj7?

[thamiam]

It's not wrong, it's perfectly 'right'. It just seems to be kind of out of joint with some of the other things going on. I just wanted to clarify, and hopefully get some context by finding out where the progression came from. What era, style, etc...

[WattsUrizen]

 

Originally posted by thamiam Are you sure the D chord in the second bar is a Dmaj7? I'm not saying it's not possible, but that would mean that the piece is modulating for 1 beat of 1 measure. What is this progression from?

 

 

I'd say that the Dmaj7 is merely a chromatic embellishment, just a slight bit of harmonic adventure.

 

Modulation for 1 beat of 1 measure just doesn't occur. It doesn't have time to gain any structural significance.

 

My interpretation of the chord progression is:

 

I - IV - V - VI - II - V

 

Note that effectively, we can strip this down to:

 

I - II - V

 

Notice that the C7 is a tritone substitution for F#7, and that F#7 is the dominant of B. Instead of playing F# for two beats, there is a substitution, which also gives a nice descending voice leading to the Bm7 chord.

 

Also, the IV-V-VI is really just a succession of linear contrapuntal chords that moves to the II. Also note that the Bdim is a transition chord between the II and V. It serves not only to prolong the II, but also anticipates the V.

[SonicTonic]

A progression can be analized to death. Try connecting the chord tones where there is more than 1 chord per measure.

 

Dmaj7 (IV) can be thought of as a substitution for Bmin7 (II).

D F# A C#

B D F# A

 

Or more accurately Dmaj7 is a Bmin9 chord without the B root.

 

The F#7 resolves to Bmin7 (with the C7 tritone) if you think in terms of harmonic minor. Often a dominant V chord will resolve to a minor tonic in jazz, etc. The seventh degree of the B harmonic minor (A#) is the third in F#7 (F# A# C# E). B natural minor would give a min7 chord as the fifth (F# A C# E).

 

B dim7 can be thought of as E7b9:

 

B D F G#

E G# B D F

 

B Dim7 is E7b9 without the E. E7b9 is an alteration of E7.

 

Try connecting tthose tone colors over the changes.

 

I would try A major or lydian in the first measue

The chord tones with passing tones in the second measure

B dorian in the third measure

E mixolyidian with a well placed b2 in the fourth. Or fifth mode of harmonic minor (E F G# A B C D). This scale gives you the f in Bmin7, and the G# and D (third and seventh) in E7.

 

Just some ideas

[thamiam]

Originally posted by SonicTonic Dmaj7 (IV) can be thought of as a substitution for Bmin7 (II). D F# A C# B D F# A

 

 

This is why I was aking about the Dmaj7. It is actually a very common practice to make the IV a dominant 7, at least in more modern music (since about 1950 onwards, Sonny Rollins was the big champion of this). This provides a smoother transtition in voice leading, as you are only moving one half step to get to the IV, instead of a whole step. The maj7 of A (G#) to the maj7 of D (C#) is a fourth, which is a strong interval, but G# to C (actually B#) is a very strong interval of a major 3rd. And it introduces the minor third of the tonic to the progression, which opens up the use of the blues scale across the whole preogression (especially in combination with the major pentatonic). This also foreshadows the change to A minor ahead.

 

Like I said, both work well, but making the Dmaj7 a D7 is a little more 'modern' and gives you four strong dominant chords in the bar, increasing tension and strengthening the resolution to come.

 

But it's a 'toe-may-toe' / 'toe-mah-toe' kind of argument.

[sansunzeste]

Thanks everyone,

 

Most of you have been mostly analyzing the first 4 bars which I understand well already. What I've been wondering about is the last 4 bars mostly. Specificly the last bar. Would I use a diminished whole 1/2 scale for 3 and 4 of the 8th bar?

[thamiam]

 

Originally posted by sansunzeste | Amin7 | D7 Gmin7 | C7 | Fmin7 Bdim E7 | A blues ----> G blues ---> Fblues Eblues

 

 

Well, you are looking at all ii-V-I's (or ii-V-i) here, so the simplest way would be to use a series of blues scales based on the I's.

 

| Amin7 | D7 Gmin7 | C7 | Fmin7 Bdim E7 |

A blues ----> F blues ------------------->A blues

 

For a less bluesy, but more varied sound, sub an A major scale of some sort (A major pent, E mixolydian) for the last A blues. (Or, play the A major eveyr time, then end on a A blues.)

 

Lots of possibilities here, though. There's some resources (books, web pages, transcribing, etc...) where you can get an endless number of ii-V-I (and i) licks. Try copping some of those, then play the blues scales for five beats (the I-IV or i-IV), then break into those licks in whatever key they are in.

[sansunzeste]

Ok I see what ur saying.

 

I was talking with my jazz band director about this and he said that he might play a diminished whole tone scale over the last bdim and E7 in order to create some neat dissonance and tension that would resolve to the Amaj when it all repeats. What are your thoughts on this? I kinda am leaning towards the more jazzy less bluesy kinda sound, if that makes sense:D .

 

What about inorder to ditch the blues scale, doin a Gmaj instead of the A blues. hmmm

[thamiam]

Your director is a pretty smart cat. He makes a good point about creating tension through dissonance right before you go back to the Tonic Major 7th chord, because otherwise everything will blend together.

 

another suggestion for the last bar leading into the first bar would be playing a it all as a C#7 chord. The major chord tones would be C# E#(F) G# and B. Notice how the chord tones of the C#7 line up with the chord tones of the progression:

 

The 3rd is the root and the 5th is the 3rd of the Fmin7 chord

The 7th is the root and the 3rd is the 5th of the B dim chord

The 5th is the 3rd and the 7th is the 5th of the E7 chord

 

Then when you go back to bar 1 and the A maj7, just change one note and make it a C#min7. That spells out the 3-5-7-9 of Amaj7.

 

This kind of approach is definitely more jazzy than bluesy. I would look at this to get a Coleman Hawkins kind of vibe, using lots of arpeggios and ending phrases one bar after the end of the progression with a 3-5-7-9 arpeggio. Try it out.