Help with discerning the key to a song

[SAF_Jon]

Ok, I'm having some real trouble with finding the key to this song. Actually, it has two keys, but the first part is what's giving me real trouble. I actually wrote this myself, so I know it sounds just fine, not dissonant or anything, I'm just trying to explain everything "theoretically," so the other band members will be on the same page. At the beginning of the song is a solo that includes all of the following notes:

 

E, F#, G, Ab, Bb, D

 

Immediately following that is a break down part, which is just three simple 5th chords:

 

F#5 (F# - C#), D5, (D - A), E5 (E - B)

 

So, we've got the following notes:

 

E, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb, B, C#, D, E

 

Then the next part in the song is three chords:

 

C5/G# (C - G - G#), A5 (A - E), D5 (D - A)

 

There is more after this part, but no new notes are introduced.

 

And so, in the entire song we've got all these notes:

 

E, F#, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb, B, C, C#, D, E

 

I've pretty much eliminated E Minor with modal interchanges between E Major as the key. That's a typical technique of mine. I had thought maybe E Dorian would be the dominant scale, but I couldn't find another scale to place over it that had all of the other notes in it. Here's the E Dorian Scale:

 

E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E

 

That still leaves these notes without a scale:

 

G#/Ab, A#/Bb, C

 

I dunno, I am at a loss right now. Any help will be much appreciated.

[evan_02]

FYI: never mix sharps and flats, it's either one or the other

 

E, F#, G, Ab, Bb, D

change that to: E F# G G# A# D

you have a G and a G#, a minor and a major third, as well as a major 2nd (F#) a #4 (A#) and a b7 (D)

the only way this would be possible (i think) is if you had an E7 chord as the backing harmony-you can have the 2 thirds and the #11 (just altered tones).

 

a break down part, which is just three simple 5th chords:

 

F#5 (F# - C#), D5, (D - A), E5 (E - B)

okay..you add a C# (the b13 of E) and the 4th (A), as well as the 5th (B)

thats cool, more notes that lead back to the altered E7

there is really no way to give you a solid answer without hearing the song...

my guess: you're playing around with an E7 tonality by adding altered tones, but it could also be some sort of modulation, but i can't help you there...

if you go with my analysis, you'd want to mess around with dominant scales (mixolydian, phyrgian dominant, the altered scale, lydian b7, and creative uses of pentatonics)-but i don't think that was your questions...

try telling your band mates that it's just in the key of E mixolydian (E F# G# A B C# D) with a few passing tones here and there and see what happens..

maybe someone else can be a bit mroe helpful

[SAF_Jon]

You know what... I think I've figured it out. If I build the scale entirely from the roots of all the chords, I come out with G Major. Then, if you add the G# Minor scale, all the notes fall into place, with the exception of D#, which isn't played in the song. If anyone comes up with anything different, feel free to chime in.

 

(EDIT)

 

Here are the scales:

 

G Major = G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G

G# Minor = G#, A#, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#

 

I don't know what theoretical technique would relate those two scales, however...

[thamiam]

OK, first of all, get rid of those flats. No key signature mixes sharps and flats, sometimes it is just written that way for simplicity.

 

So the notes we are playing with are:

E, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C, C#, D, E

 

Which means we have the following sharps:

F# C# G# A#

 

Now according to the circle of fifths, you can't have an A# as part of the key without also having D#. So most likely we are in the key of A major.

 

As for the scale, remember only one note name can be used per scale, so let's eliminate some of the doubles that don't fit into the key of A major. That gives us:

E F# G# A B C# D E

 

The A major scale starting on the 5, or E mixolydian.

 

This allows us to classify the G, A#, and C as accidentals. In A major:

G = b7 A = b9 C = b3

 

So what you seem to be working with is really just A major, with the use of the A major blues scale mixed in.

 

The tonality of the piece is pretty ambivalent, because of all the power chords used. but as it stands calling it A major and using the E mixolydian and A major blues scales should fit nicely.

 

Hope this helps.

[SAF_Jon]

That helps a lot. Thanks thamiam.

[hhersh]

WOW

[djmojo]

holy crap, I think I need a private lesson with thamiam...

 

I dont know what this stuff is.. accidentals and stuff... can you explain them for theory losers like me?

[thamiam]

 

Originally posted by djmojo I dont know what this stuff is.. accidentals and stuff... can you explain them for theory losers like me?

 

 

It's not that complicated. Basically an accidental is any note not in the scale that the piece is in. So if the music is in C major, than any sharp or flat is an accidental. If the key is in G minor (2 flats) then any sharp or flat besides Bb or Eb is an accidental.

 

This is most obvious when looking at standard notation, because the transcriber will put all of the flats or sharps in the key right at the beginning so they don't have to write them every single time they happen. Then any time you see a sharp, natural, or a flat it is an accidental (or a return from an accidental). If you read standard notation, it becomes pretty clear. If not, just think of accidentals as another term for 'non-scale notes' of the root scale.