Members djmojo Posted November 19, 2002 Members Share Posted November 19, 2002 I read in another thread about this and I went to a couple sites to try and learn this stuff... and they all were making it VERY complicated... I understand that you can take your 5 basic chord shapes and make any major chord with them, but how do you use those shapes to make minor chords? it said on all the website that its "intuitive" but I dont find it intuitive, I mean you have to think about it and then flat a couple notes and whatnot... seems to get complicated does anyone feel like openning this up to us newbies? or giving us some links that help to step through the process of understanding this "revolutionary method" which seems to have helped many people move along the fret board easily... Just trying to start big discussions [edit] maybe also a discussion of some good chord theory can go in here learning what chords sound like, why they sound like they do, how to manilpulate them to sound like you want them circle of 5ths... um Im running out of ideas, cause I dont know that much too many smileys makes a bad post... oh well links to these types of things would be great, but a nice lamens explanation of this stuff would be sweet thats if someone has too much time on their hands and feels like being a super hero! at least to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrimeMover Posted November 19, 2002 Members Share Posted November 19, 2002 To hell with discussions... what you need to learn the CAGED system is a method which uses association to assist in the learning process. Something more than a bunch of charts to look at. Something more than just a bunch of movable positions. Something that will help you to relate to it from a musical standpoint. Something with practical application. Something like this...A Realistic CAGED Solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djmojo Posted November 19, 2002 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2002 hehe, that was a nice post Im checking out that link right now...but nothing wrong with a good discussion. although you were too the point and gave a link and this lesson has 18 pages... wow!I saw a caged lesson on that website and I was affraid it was the same one, the one with charts and memorization, and this is nice cause its not the same one... reading now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starr Posted November 19, 2002 Members Share Posted November 19, 2002 pick up the book fretboard logic i think that is what it is called flat the 3rd to make minor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djmojo Posted November 20, 2002 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2002 yeah its more than just flatting the third tho... minor goes w-h-w-w-h-w-w major goes w-w-h-w-w-w-h or am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sansunzeste Posted November 20, 2002 Members Share Posted November 20, 2002 to make a major chord into a minor, you flat the third of that chord: C E G = C major C Eb G = C minor Now chords really ARE scales/represent scales (I know it's confusing but stay with me.) You are correct about the WWHWWWH and WHWWHWW for major and minor. A basic triad is made up of the 1st 3rd and 5th notes in that chord's scale. So: C major scale C D E F G A B C 1st=C , 3rd=E, 5th=G C major chord is therefore C E G C minor scale C D Eb F G Ab Bb C 1st=C, 3rd=Eb, 5th=G minor chord is therefore C Eb G what is the difference between these two chords? the third The minor's third is flat. Did that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djmojo Posted November 20, 2002 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2002 yeah thanks... I was actually thinking about what I said after I went to bed last night and realized how much of an idiot I was we were talking about chords and then I went on to talk about the difference between major and minor SCALES.okay so basically we were talkinga bout triads... gotcha, wont happen again, sorry if I came across as arrogant.I read that link that was posted earlier and I have more questions... it helped me to understand where the forms go for which key Im in, but it didnt really talk about how to apply this to minor chords... or how it helps me know where the scales are... other than just a quick way of finding major 1, 3, 5 intervals... do I base the rest of the scale around those intervals that I find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratKat Posted November 21, 2002 Members Share Posted November 21, 2002 The system has benefits and different ways to apply it but for what you were asking here is my take on the siimplest way to play a chord using the caged thang.... Alright, think of all the open string chords you know when you started off on guitar. They all use specific fingerings, and they all use the headnut as a fret, right? Okay, what if you put your first finger over that headnut like you were playing it as a fret. And then rethought the fingering for each open string chord? See, in this part of the caged system you use the first finger as a replacement for the headnut ANYWHERE on the neck you like. Similar to a capo in some ways, sort of.... When you learn the new fingering for the open string chords they become a form of BARRE chords and therefore completely movable up and down the neck. But thats not all! Next, is another part of the cage system that i found beneficial. And thats the PARTIAL open string chord forms because they too are movable. In those type of abbreviated chord forms you can play any chord form as say a triad anywhere on the neck too. So why would someone want to use this type of chord stuff? Because some of it is hard on the fangers, ya know? Well, you probably already know that closed or non-open string chords have a bassier tone than open string chords, right? So if you were playing in a band and the other is using an open string chord and you want a slightly FULLER sound you can use the barre form of it from the caged system (or partial). Then there is the leadwork and scale work surrounding chords that can be used with the caged system. That has benefits too. Alot of country players can play very well using mostly open string chords and scales associated with the first 4 frets and open strings. Give them the patterns for the caged chord system and they can now play like that all over the neck. Yes, its hard at first, but everything ive learned on guitar that was a breakthrough had a "pain" price attached to it. Your hands will adjust over time and it becomes second nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members djmojo Posted November 21, 2002 Author Members Share Posted November 21, 2002 Im not finding it terribly difficult... the only chord forms that are problems for me on this barre system are the C form and the D form, I know the benefits of doing a D chord without the first finger (then its easy to move to the minor D chord) but the C I just have a hard time doing I guess if I force myself for a few days it will helpas for scales, I dont find the caged system is working for me, I find that if I make a minor chord and do some arpeggios with it, or likewise with a major chord, and I practice them all over the neck, Im already getting more familiar with the scales and where the 1, 3, 5 lie etc (based on what chords Im doing) and just ONE night of this has actually helped me put alot more feeling into my little licks... but maybe Im just in awe at the sound arpeggios make they make you sound good even if you do them really slow... and they are fun... but thats off topic.So I need to leard the caged system and apply it to minor chords too?? will it work the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratKat Posted November 22, 2002 Members Share Posted November 22, 2002 Well, its my opp that any system has strengths and weaknesses. I like some things about the caged system, some things about pattern playing, some things about notation and tab, etc...When i use the caged system in relation to a scale its more based on the individual chord form im trying to use at the time. What i mean is that if i am playing an open string D chord and i want to embellish it with walks into and/or out of it, or add certain notes to it, i found that because i had learned all those things for the open strings chord form i could then USE them easily whenever applying the caged D chord form anywhere on the neck.The true purpose of the caged system to me is the all around idea that once you learn the first 5 frets, chord forms in them, and scales related to those chord forms it all becomes movable.Where most people think of the neck as a big ol territory to explore i now see it as all charted out pretty simply in the first five frets. Learn everything about how to play well in those first five frets and with the caged system it all becomes movable to other places.Its not all ther is, but its a great start to open up a persons eyes to see the guitar in a new light thats managable.Alot of poeple look at the entire neck and see this huge thing to learn and master. When in fact, its easy with a few tools and focus on the beginning frets of it.Just as we all learned about the twelth fret representing a NEW headnut or new neck we can also see the entire neck as something alot smaller when we cut it down to just five frets.And like i was saying, some people want to master entire systems. I just steal what works for me from all of them as i go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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