writing music using modes as a starting place

[johnnysixguns]

i know that in an earlier thread, thamian (sp?) said that thinking of modes as scales starting on a different degree is a shortcut.. but i have a question about writing music using modes.

 

say i wanted to write a song using D-Mixolydian. D-Mixolydian has the same notes in it as G major. and normally when writing progression, i tend to follow the ideas on chord structure and progression structure (ex- I-V-ii-V). if i wanted to write a song using D-Mixolydian, i would start with D as my I, correct, and let all the other notes be their degrees in relation to I? (ex- GABCDEF#G = I ii iii IV V vi vii... DEF#GABCD = I ii iii IV V vi vii)... or would i keep them in relation to G? sorry if this seems like a dumb question to ask. i just wanna make sure im right about what im thinking

[banderos]

Ah the eternal modes question. I have written lots of posts in the past arguing that teaching the 'shortcut' to modes first only ends up causing confusion in the long run, but I won't go into that here...

The short answer is that you should still use the same notes as D Myxo, which is the same notes as G Major. But, when you build your I, IV, V etc chords, build them in terms of Root, 3rds and 5ths. Let the scale determine for you whether they be minor 3rds or major 3rds etc.

e.g Build the II chord for something in the key of D Myxo.

Root = E
3rd = G
5th = B

= E minor

Hope this helps!

Ya Min

[thamiam]

Originally posted by johnnysixguns (ex- GABCDEF#G = I ii iii IV V vi vii... ) keep them in relation to G.

 

 

This is correct. This way your tonality is in G Mixolydian. The other way, your tonality is still in D Ionian.

[djmojo]

Thank you Thamiam! that was exactly what I was looking for with all my questions about modes!

So you take a standard progression like I-IV-V-I and play that in G mixolydian, and it has a different flavour because you play the same progression but the intervals are all different (mixolydian is the jazzy one right?)

[thamiam]

Woops, I made a mistake. sorry.

Actually, we made a mistake.

G mixolydian is GABCDEFG (not F#).

But if you were to write in G mixolydian, G7 (GBDF)becomes your one chord (I), Am7 (ACEG) becomes your ii chordm etc...

Notice how thing change as far as chord qualities. Your I chord is now a dominant 7th chord (like in the blues). Your V chord is now a minor7th (DFAC). Things will resolve differently, but that is the sound of Mixolydian harmony, and it's just different than the Ionian harmony we are all used to.

[johnnysixguns]

alright.. i think maybe my question cluttered up the way everyone else answered, but after reading, i think ive basically got the same idea..

so when writing music using modes, you'd use the notes in that for that mode, but fashion them in the order that that would go with their relative major scale? soo

Gmaj -
G A B C D E F# G
I ii iii IV V vi vii I

D-Mixolydian -
D E F# G A B C D
I ii iii IV v vi VII I


as you can see, the way i put that out was i picked up on the mixolydian where it would've picked up from the chord structure if i was in Gmaj ... so if i've got that right, good.

and would i just go about writing the progressions the same way? with D as my I for a I-IV-V progression? making it D-G-A?

[thamiam]

Exactly.


Except... I IV V will sound different than it will in Ionian harmony. It won't resolve as smoothly or sound as 'strong'. The Ionian mode of the major scale is uniquely structured to resolve to I in the strongest possible manner.

That is why many modal tunes consist of just a few chords, instead of complex progressions. You can consider this a limitation or a freedom.

[johnnysixguns]

Originally posted by thamiam Exactly. Except... I IV V will sound different than it will in Ionian harmony. It won't resolve as smoothly or sound as 'strong'. The Ionian mode of the major scale is uniquely structured to resolve to I in the strongest possible manner. That is why many modal tunes consist of just a few chords, instead of complex progressions. You can consider this a limitation or a freedom.

terrific! thanks thamiam you're a huge help

[Dave Regio]

Originally posted by thamiam Exactly. Except... I IV V will sound different than it will in Ionian harmony. It won't resolve as smoothly or sound as 'strong'. The Ionian mode of the major scale is uniquely structured to resolve to I in the strongest possible manner. That is why many modal tunes consist of just a few chords, instead of complex progressions. You can consider this a limitation or a freedom.

Could he go "outside the box" and play a V7 chord (D7) as opposed to Dmin7. The third of the V7 will lead nicely to the root of the I7?

Of course, as you currently have it, you have the b7 of the V chord ©, which is the fourth of your key. The fourth will pull towards your third of the key center (B) because of the built in tension.

[thamiam]

He can do anything he damn well pleases. It's his music. What will happen is that the tonality of the piece will momentarily shift from mixolydian to ionian. No big deal, unless you really want to keep a mixolydian mood.

[TriaDivisor]

Originally posted by Dave Regio Could he go "outside the box" and play a V7 chord (D7) as opposed to Dmin7. The third of the V7 will lead nicely to the root of the I7? Of course, as you currently have it, you have the b7 of the V chord (C), which is the fourth of your key. The fourth will pull towards your third of the key center (B) because of the built in tension.

Do I smell secondary dominants? Man this is better than perusing all my guitar one mags.