Please help with chord progression

[335clone]

A friend of mine showed me this progression last week, and I'm confused about a couple of the chords. What makes it hard for me is he's a good player who knows no theory so he may have just put together some nice sounding notes. Here it is:

 

 

--X---0---X---3---3------------------------------------------

--5---1---1---5---3------------------------------------------

--4---2---2---5---5------------------------------------------

--5---2---3---3---3------------------------------------------

--3---0---3---5---5------------------------------------------

--X---0---X---3---3------------------------------------------

 

So I think the first is Cmaj7

second is Am

3rd is F

 

What about the last two?

G13 and G7 sus 4?

 

Fmaj13 no 3 and F add9 6 no 3?

 

Cadd9 and Dm11 no 5?

 

Sometimes chord naming software opens more questions than they answer. So which is right? What key is this in?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Poparad]

I would probably call it G13sus4 to G7sus4. All the other chords before it are root position and pretty standard and all in the key of C, so to the ear this would be percieved as some sort of G chord, especially with the root and fifth on the bottom just like all the previous chords. And if the progression repeats back to the Cmaj7 chord, then it's definately funcitoning as a V chord in C.

[dongenaro]

I'd say your right with the G13 & G7sus4.

It's in the key of C major.

 

C = I

Am = vi

F = IV

G = V

[dongenaro]

 

Originally posted by Poparad I would probably call it G13sus4 to G7sus4. All the other chords before it are root position and pretty standard and all in the key of C, so to the ear this would be percieved as some sort of G chord, especially with the root and fifth on the bottom just like all the previous chords. And if the progression repeats back to the Cmaj7 chord, then it's definately funcitoning as a V chord in C.

 

 

Looks like we were posting at the same time.Yeah, G13sus4. I didn't notice the 4 the first time I looked.

[335clone]

Thanks guys. G13/G7sus4 was my first guess, but I wanted your expert opinions.

 

While I'm at it, any cool scale suggestions would be appreciated. It has a jazzy feel, so I dont want to just through up a Cm pent over it. Help me look smart!

[edeltorus]

I would play straight A aeolian over it.. The basic harmony is almost an aeolian cliche

[Poparad]

Originally posted by 335clone Thanks guys. G13/G7sus4 was my first guess, but I wanted your expert opinions. While I'm at it, any cool scale suggestions would be appreciated. It has a jazzy feel, so I dont want to just through up a Cm pent over it. Help me look smart!

 

Well, Cm pent wounldn't be too keen of a choice as the progression is in Cmajor.

 

That said, there are three pentatonics you can choose from when in any major key: the ones based off of the ii, iii, and vi.

 

So in C major, you can play Am pentatonic, Dm pentatonic, or Em pentatonic. Each one has a different sound and can be good for a fresh sound if one gets too dull.

 

Another way to look at it is from the major pentatonic perspective, in which case you take the relative majors of the minor pentatonics I mentioned. This would be major pentatonics from the I, IV, and V. In Cmajor, that's Cmajor pent, Fmajor pent, and Gmajor pent.

 

 

To get a little specific on the progression, I would play the Em pentatonic on the Am chord, and the Dm pentatonic on the G7sus sound. One the Am chord, Em pent brings out the 9th which you don't get with Am pent. On the G7sus, the Dm pent has the 4th of the chord in it, C, and doesn't have the 3rd, B, so it matches the sound of the chord much better.

 

On the Fmajor chord, you can stay with the Em pent from the previous Am chord. This choice brings out a lot of cool notes over the Fmajor chord, such as the 7th, 9th, and #11.

 

One Cmajor7, all three choices would sound equally as nice. For simplicity, you could pick Em pentatonic, so that way you're playing the same scale over the first 3 chords and only move down a whole step to Dm pent for the G7sus chord.

[335clone]

 

Originally posted by Poparad Well, Cm pent wounldn't be too keen of a choice as the progression is in Cmajor.

 

 

Thats why I asked, because I am used to blues progressions where you do play the minor pent over the major chord. I have a lot to learn, but have come a long ways already (I think).

 

Thanks to both you and Edeltorus for the suggestions. I will try them out tonight, and hopefuly come up with something interesting to play.

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by 335clone Thats why I asked, because I am used to blues progressions where you do play the minor pent over the major chord. I have a lot to learn, but have come a long ways already (I think). Thanks to both you and Edeltorus for the suggestions. I will try them out tonight, and hopefuly come up with something interesting to play.

 

 

I figured you were coming from a blues background when you said that. Playing the minor pentatonic from the same root as a major chord works when the chord is a dominant 7th chord, which all the chords in the blues are. You can do that in other situations though if you want to make a lick sound 'bluesy' but it can very quickly be overdone or sound out of place in a progression such as the one that this thread is about. You could try exprimenting with that though for a measure or two and see how it sounds.

[335clone]

 

Originally posted by Poparad I figured you were coming from a blues background when you said that. Playing the minor pentatonic from the same root as a major chord works when the chord is a dominant 7th chord, which all the chords in the blues are. You can do that in other situations though if you want to make a lick sound 'bluesy' but it can very quickly be overdone or sound out of place in a progression such as the one that this thread is about. You could try exprimenting with that though for a measure or two and see how it sounds.

 

 

Since this is fairly close to a I-IV-V with the relative minor,(I-vi-IV-V) is it the difference between the dominant 7th and the Major 7th that would make the Cm pent sound off? The G13sus4/G7sus4 is just 'jazzing' up the V, right?

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by 335clone Since this is fairly close to a I-IV-V with the relative minor,(I-vi-IV-V) is it the difference between the dominant 7th and the Major 7th that would make the Cm pent sound off? The G13sus4/G7sus4 is just 'jazzing' up the V, right?

 

 

Yes. The dominant seventh is an unstable sound and is more applicable to dissonances, and most often, the dissonances sound cooler than the consances. The distance between the third and the seventh (b7 in this case) is a tritone which is a very unstable interval.

 

On a maj7 chord, the distance between the third and seventh (natural seventh here) is a perfect fifth, which is about as strong as they come. Major is a very stable sound and not very open to dissonances. However, when you can figure out how to play some dissonances over major, they sound really cool, but it's much harder to do convincingly and very easy to make it sound like wrong notes.

 

As for the G13sus4, you might say it's jazzing it up. It's really just a sus4, which isn't really exclusively a jazz sound. But in essence, yes, it is just a V7 with a couple extra notes thrown in for flavor.

[edeltorus]

Btw,

 

I played that progression yesterday evening.. Very nice.. I like the sound of it (but I prefer to play Csus4 instead of Cmaj.. don't like to start with this Cmaj-voicing).

 

I tried to improvise over it. Forget what I said about minor. That progression is major. definately. Hirajoshi does not sound to good over it. For the Am it's ok though.

 

It worked best for me to just play the arpeggios and add notes from the c-major scale. It turned into a litte nice lullaby melody. I give it another try this evening.

[335clone]

 

Originally posted by edeltorus Btw, I played that progression yesterday evening.. Very nice.. I like the sound of it (but I prefer to play Csus4 instead of Cmaj.. don't like to start with this Cmaj-voicing). I tried to improvise over it. Forget what I said about minor. That progression is major. definately. Hirajoshi does not sound to good over it. For the Am it's ok though. It worked best for me to just play the arpeggios and add notes from the c-major scale. It turned into a litte nice lullaby melody. I give it another try this evening.

 

 

I played around with those scales last night, and I agree about the Hirajoshi although it is a very cool scale.

 

So A aeolian and G indian both sounded interesting although I dont have the ability to record the progression and play over it. I just strummed a chord and played same scale tones after, then the next chord, etc.

 

The Em and Dm pents sounded off on a couple of notes, and OK on others.

 

It is a cool progression, kind of laid back. Since my friend plays much better and faster than I do, this song is a good opportunity for me to lay down a good, if slower lead melody since I usually am doing the rhythms.

 

Any more scale ideas?

 

Thanks again guys.

[335clone]

One last bump for scale ideas.

 

Thanks

[Little Pete]

I don't the theory to advise more than these guys but im definitely going to be trying out your chords and some of the scales mentioned as soon as i get back to my guitar (working on the bar tonight,8am to 4pm tomorrow and then waiting at a party tomorrow night,i try to think of the money but its hard when i have about zero free time)....

 

 

...Only having a little grumble, im sure that lots of people here work really hard and really long hours so my easy job and casual bar work second job is a breeze compared to you.Take care peeps, i'll be thinking of HC all the time im at work

[335clone]

I did a little poking around, and I think I'm going to use the C Maj Bebop scale, basicaly the major with a #5 as a passing tone. Not sure about whether it will go with the F and G7sus chords, but I can use the G indian Pent, right?

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by 335clone I did a little poking around, and I think I'm going to use the C Maj Bebop scale, basicaly the major with a #5 as a passing tone. Not sure about whether it will go with the F and G7sus chords, but I can use the G indian Pent, right?

 

 

The bebop scale should work fine on all the chords as long as you use the G# as a pasing tone. Try experimenting with adding passing tones in different spots, like an F#, or a C#, or really inbetween any of the notes that are whole steps apart.