Members keano Posted March 25, 2004 Members Share Posted March 25, 2004 In most of the songs they use the same guitar hamronies. Would these be 4th or 5ths? I am guessing 5ths? 3rds seem very dissonant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redsweater Posted March 25, 2004 Members Share Posted March 25, 2004 a 4th is technically dissonant based upon use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keano Posted March 25, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 25, 2004 thanks Red but what about Lizzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeattleRuss Posted March 26, 2004 Members Share Posted March 26, 2004 Most of their harmonies I've heard (double leads) have been pretty much straight diatonic 3rd harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arasmith Posted March 26, 2004 Members Share Posted March 26, 2004 This is straight out of the cobwebs, but there was a song, Emerald, on one of their albums (Jailbreak?) in which the double leads were in fifths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members humbog Posted October 7, 2004 Members Share Posted October 7, 2004 same subject , what are most iron maiden type harmony intervals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poparad Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 When you play thirds on a guitar with distortion, it sounds very muddy and dissonant. When you play single notes on two distorted guitars thirds apart, it sounds sweet. Distortion distorts the entire signal from a guitar. Usually thirds, 6ths (inverted thirds), and 2nds sound muddy on a single guitar. With two guitars, the signal is not applied to a chord, but a single note on each guitar. This allows for sounds that would normally sound bad on a single guitar. That said, almost 99% of harmonized lines are in thirds/sixths. They tend to sound like gregorian chants when you write in 4ths and 5ths, and octaves and unisons are dull because they aren't creating harmony. Seconds/7ths can work sometimes, but they're trickier to use and not sound too dissonant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soc_monki Posted October 7, 2004 Members Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by arasmith This is straight out of the cobwebs, but there was a song, Emerald, on one of their albums (Jailbreak?) in which the double leads were in fifths. my band plays The Emerald...awesome song. there is only one harmony in that song, right before the solos...and its played in octaves. i believe its an A minor scale, one guitar plays the low and the other an octave up. sorry im not up on my theory, but i dont think an octave is a fifth...if it is, sorry, if not, well The Emerald isnt played in fifth's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sputnik Posted October 7, 2004 Members Share Posted October 7, 2004 Originally posted by Poparad When you play thirds on a guitar with distortion, it sounds very muddy and dissonant. When you play single notes on two distorted guitars thirds apart, it sounds sweet.Distortion distorts the entire signal from a guitar. Usually thirds, 6ths (inverted thirds), and 2nds sound muddy on a single guitar.With two guitars, the signal is not applied to a chord, but a single note on each guitar. This allows for sounds that would normally sound bad on a single guitar. BRILLIANT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Triton Posted October 7, 2004 Members Share Posted October 7, 2004 soc_monki wrote: there is only one harmony in that song, right before the solos...and its played in octaves. i believe its an A minor scale, one guitar plays the low and the other an octave up Are you sure that is correct?I am pretty sure that is wrong. I never sat down and learned Emerald but just by listening to that harmony guitar part right before the solo kicks in I can swear they are harmonising in thirds.it is definitely not in octaves. Anyway it's a great song. I have played Lizzy songs in cover bands but not that one.The twin harmony lead in Waiting For An Alibi is awesome and fun to play with another guitar player. Guitar Techniques Magazine November have a full backing track and tab to Emerald. Well worth buying for any Lizzy fan. http://www.futurenet.com/guitartechniques/magazine/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=31909&subsectionid=1237 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rocinante Posted October 12, 2004 Members Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by soc_monki my band plays The Emerald...awesome song. there is only one harmony in that song, right before the solos...and its played in octaves. i believe its an A minor scale, one guitar plays the low and the other an octave up.It's based on A Minor, but the harmony is in 3rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rocinante Posted October 12, 2004 Members Share Posted October 12, 2004 Originally posted by humbog same subject , what are most iron maiden type harmony intervals? 3rds, again. However, I've noticed that Maiden will often widen their harmonies by putting the upper line an octave and a 3rd above (instead of just a 3rd above). Check out Queensryche also for more great harmonies. They'll often start an octave apart and go into 3rds or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members numba1jap Posted October 14, 2004 Members Share Posted October 14, 2004 what about thrice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSandwich Posted October 17, 2004 Members Share Posted October 17, 2004 Originally posted by numba1jap what about thrice I learned a bunch of tunes off of Illusion of Safety, and it's pretty much 3rd's. If you need any help learning some of their tunes I can pass on what I remember from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted October 17, 2004 Members Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ugh...how I absolutely CRINGE when I hear sustained parallel harmony at ANY interval when split between two guitars. It's not so bad if ONE player plays parallel harmony lines as doublestops...but two guitars? Blah! Whatever happened to oblique and contrary motion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members edeltorus Posted October 18, 2004 Members Share Posted October 18, 2004 Auggie, I think the point is to play the parallel harmonized lines because of their sound. It's part of the 80th metal clich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted October 18, 2004 Members Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by edeltorus Auggie, I think the point is to play the parallel harmonized lines because of their sound. It's part of the 80th metal clich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Triton Posted October 19, 2004 Members Share Posted October 19, 2004 Auggie Doggie wrote:Believe me, I was around when that device was mandated by Mike Varney, and EVERYONE on the Shrapnel label was doubling all their 'solos' in parallel thirds. Ugh...I hated that sound then...I hate it even more now! I could never figure out how it became a cliche in the first placel I don't understand you.Parallel thirds is one of the most beautiful sounds I can think of and I listen to them and use it all the time myself. There must be something wrong with your ears.More Parallel thirds to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LosBoleros Posted October 23, 2004 Members Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by Auggie Doggie Believe me, I was around when that device was mandated by Mike Varney, and EVERYONE on the Shrapnel label was doubling all their 'solos' in parallel thirds. Ugh...I hated that sound then...I hate it even more now! I could never figure out how it became a cliche in the first place. If you play around with the alternatives to thirds, You should arive to the conclusion that thirds are the best most of the time. It's probably the crap that was harmonised in thirds that was so offensive. Parrallel Crap It seems that most of that stuff was Shred Metal without a soul. Shredding for the sake of shredding. Ahhhh I just hate that whole era. Of course that is just IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted October 23, 2004 Members Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by LosBoleros If you play around with the alternatives to thirds, You should arive to the conclusion that thirds are the best most of the time. It's probably the crap that was harmonised in thirds that was so offensive. Well, it didn't help that 99% of it was nonstop scale passages. Even so, if they HAD to use parallel harmony, 6ths would have sounded better; those thirds are just too close together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LosBoleros Posted October 23, 2004 Members Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by Auggie Doggie Well, it didn't help that 99% of it was nonstop scale passages. Even so, if they HAD to use parallel harmony, 6ths would have sounded better; those thirds are just too close together. This note is the third of that note but that note is the sixth of this note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Auggie Doggie Posted October 23, 2004 Members Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by LosBoleros This note is the third of that note but that note is the sixth of this note. I know what intervals and their inversions are. I was pointing out that the increased distance of the interval of a 6th would have been far less offensive, having a sense of greater 'space' instead of a crammed-in assault of notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LosBoleros Posted October 23, 2004 Members Share Posted October 23, 2004 augie doggie wrote :Well, it didn't help that 99% of it was nonstop scale passages. Thats it exactly! don't get me wrong I am not talking about thin lizzy now, I mean all those recordings by Mike Varney and Shrapnel Records. One word that describes that type of shredding is LINEAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soc_monki Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Rocinante It's based on A Minor, but the harmony is in 3rds. are you guys sure about that? we tried doing 3rds, didnt work! the only thing that was correct when i was trying to figure out the harmony were octaves...i started by playing the Am scale and then lowered an octave and it was right there...under our noses when we were looking somewhere else. well, ill stick to my guns...i still think its in octaves, i just wish i had a copy of the song here to check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Triton Posted October 26, 2004 Members Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sorry soc_monki but it is in thirds and I am 110% sure about that. If you hear Octaves you need an ear-training lesson (and I don't mean to be offensive)The harmony section starts at 2:03. Take the balance control on your stereo or whatever you are listening through to and pan left or right. Then you will hear each guitar part separately.Now if you hear octaves there something is seriously wrong with your ears. Here's a powertab version of the song that is pretty accurate. Check the harmony section because that is how it is played on the original version. If I am wrong I promise I will give you all my guitars.http://www.powertabs.net/pta.php?page=song,8432 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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