Chord question....again !

[mrlucky7]

Yep....I'm stuck trying to figure out an other chord...

 

 

It is listed as Bbmaj6dim5. The song is capo on the third fret so this should be a Db. On the tab they suggest a fingering of :

 

1

1

0

0

3

X

 

This does not make sense to me since the bass is F. I tried :

 

X

1

0

0

3

1

 

It still doesnt sound right to my ears.

 

 

Is the voicing correct ?

 

Would you have any suggestions ?

 

Thanks !

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by mrlucky7

It is listed as Bbmaj6dim5.

 

If the fingering given sounds correct, use it. The '_maj6dim5' name is an absolute joke, however, and should be ignored.

 

The first fingering you gave (disregarding the capo) yields a G7sus...hence the same shape with the capo at the 3rd fret is Bb7sus. The suspension happens to be in the bass in that fingering...when you showed the second fingering and put the (capo-less) F on the bottom, the 7 was in the bass (an Ab if using a capo).

[mrlucky7]

Thank you for the answer Auggie.

 

 

I am still confused though !

 

 

I know the way the chord was written felt bizarre to me. If we forget the capo, the notes are Bb, D, G, F. Isnt this a Bb6 ? But, in the weird listed name they put dim5. Would this mean Bb, D, G, E ? Would it be ok to name a chord Bb6b5 ?

 

0

3

0

0

1

X

 

Also sorry about an other confusion. I am a left handed player and posted the fingering backwards in my original post

[Auggie Doggie]

Originally posted by mrlucky7 I know the way the chord was written felt bizarre to me. If we forget the capo, the notes are Bb, D, G, F. Isnt this a Bb6 ? But, in the weird listed name they put dim5. Would this mean Bb, D, G, E ? Would it be ok to name a chord Bb6b5 ? 0 3 0 0 1 X Bb D G E is correct, although Bb is not the logical choice for the root note. To use 'b5', you'd have to write E as Fb. Written as 'E', it's a #4 above Bb, so there should be no 'b5' in the name. I am guessing the tune is in the key of F (or possibly D minor), and the chord that follows is an F major of some kind? I would rearrange those notes in the following order: E G Bb D, which is a garden variety Em7b5 (aka E half-diminished), with the b5 in the bass. OR, it could be thought of as a rootless C9 (C E G Bb D), which would indicate a clearly dominant function. Also sorry about an other confusion. I am a left handed player and posted the fingering backwards in my original post

 

OK, that changes my earlier post considerably. It's easiest for use the lowest line to represent the low E string.

[mrlucky7]

Thanks !

 

If it helps, the chords following this one are Csus4, C and some kind of F :

 

3

6

5

3

X

X

 

(capo on third fret to do this)

[edeltorus]

 

Originally posted by mrlucky7 3 6 5 3 X X

 

 

Spelled in intervals:

 

2 == g

1 == f

5 == b

1 == f

x

x

 

This is a F-sus2 chord.

[jazzbo]

How about

 

x

5

7

5

x

6

 

or

 

0

3

0

0

1

x

 

or

 

6

5

7

5

x

x

 

or

 

3

3

3

2

x

x

 

or

 

10

8

9

8

x

x

 

 

 

 

this is without capo, transpose for Db by raising 3 frets

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by mrlucky7 0 3 0 0 1 X

 

 

 

Bb can be heard as a root for this chord. Not in the strictest classical sense, but I've used this voicing a lot in jazz for Bbmaj7(#11).

 

A Bbmaj13(#11) chord contains the following notes:

 

Bb D F A C E G

 

Your voicing contains all but the A (the 7th) and the C (the 9th). While it is very uncommon to omit the 7th from a voicing, in the strictest sense, it's not unheard of. When heard in musical context (such as a song in the key of Dm or F major), the ear will imply the missing notes and it will be heard or at least understood to be Bbmaj7(#11) (in a general sense).

 

I also disagree with Em7(b5) because the above is a really weak voicing for it. If put in the right context, it would work, but the prominance of Bb as the lowest note with the D doubled in it really reinforces the Bb root to my ear. Also the fact that the two lowest notes are in order a Root and third of a Bb, and we're accustomed to hearing things in 3rds, so the ear would naturally hear that as a strong Bb root (or at least my warped jazz ears do).

 

 

One of the hardest concepts for most people to wrap their minds around in the world of jazz harmony (13th chords and the such) is that many notes can be ommited (especially on a limited voicing instrument like guitar) and the overall sound can still be heard or implied by the music. You don't need every note found in a textbook definiton of a chord to fufil the overall function of a chord. Sometimes the best voicings are the most open, thinnest ones.

[Poparad]

 

Originally posted by jazzbo How about x 5 7 5 x 6

 

 

This is almost the same voicing as the first one, but moved down a string and up 5 frets. If you added a note on the 5th fret of the 5th string (A string), it would be the same voicing, so see my above post.

 

0 3 0 0 1 x

 

 

 

Above post.

 

 

 

6 5 7 5 x x

 

 

By itself, it is Gm6, or Em7(b5) with the third in the bass. If you had a bass player reinforce a Bb root, you could make it a sort of Bbmaj7(#11) sound.

 

 

3 3 3 2 x x

 

 

This one is very much Em7(b5). This particular voicing, unlike the one I discussed in the above post, lends itself to the 'E' being heard prominantly as the root, but again, with a bass player prominantly emphasizing a Bb, it might be heard as Bbmaj7(#11), but not as effectively as the above voicings.

 

 

10 8 9 8 x x

 

 

 

Another inversion of Em7(b5), with the fifth in the bass. Unlike the original chord which also has a Bb in the bass, this one has an E directly above it, and not a D, so the Bb isn't strongly heard as a root. But again, this is the chord in isolation. In a musical context, you might be able to pull it off as a couple of different sounds.

[jazzbo]

1. and 2. are Bb6b5, like he is asking for. Basically the same, I agree, although 2. could be voiced:

 

0

x

0

0

1

x

 

and be a little different

 

3. could be respelled Gm6 for sure.

 

4. could be respelled E half-diminished.

 

5. could be respelled C9.

 

I was aware of that but I do think that all of them are valid inversions since the (Bb) chord does not involve higher voicings like 9, 11, or 13.

 

The first two are the best.

 

2. has been a favorite chord of mine for a long time, ever since I learned it from Led Zeppelin's "Over the Hills and Far Away". I like the way it goes from

 

x

3

0

0

1

x

 

to

 

x

5

0

0

3

x

 

Nice sound!

[Poparad]

Originally posted by jazzbo 1. and 2. are Bb6b5, like he is asking for. Basically the same, I agree, although 2. could be voiced:

 

Like Auggie Doggie pointed out, it would be #11 or #4, not a b5, because there aren't any keys that contain Bb, D, and Fb; but there are keys that contain Bb, D, and E.

 

 

 

5. could be respelled C9.

 

I hadn't thought of that one, but it's a good one. Further proof that with the proper context, you can use a simple chord in a lot of different situations.

 

 

2. has been a favorite chord of mine for a long time, ever since I learned it from Led Zeppelin's "Over the Hills and Far Away". I like the way it goes from x 3 0 0 1 x to x 5 0 0 3 x Nice sound!

 

 

That is nice.

[mrlucky7]

Thank you for all the great information !

 

 

I find that for the song I am playing, this works the best :

 

0

3

0

0

1

X

 

Since it leads to :

 

0

3

2

2

0

X

 

I love the "Lesson loft"....I learn a great deal of theory from all the answers. The notes mentionned for "over the hills and far away", is this in the ending ?

 

Thanks again to all

[lazaraga]

 

Originally posted by Poparad One of the hardest concepts for most people to wrap their minds around in the world of jazz harmony (13th chords and the such) is that many notes can be ommited (especially on a limited voicing instrument like guitar) and the overall sound can still be heard or implied by the music. You don't need every note found in a textbook definiton of a chord to fufil the overall function of a chord. Sometimes the best voicings are the most open, thinnest ones.

 

 

right on.

[jazzbo]

 

Originally posted by mrlucky7 The notes mentionned for "over the hills and far away", is this in the ending ?

 

 

It's in the acoustic guitar intro at the beginning.

 

Goes something like

C G/B Bb6 Csus2 G

down in the open position

[Joe Merlino]

 

Originally posted by Poparad One of the hardest concepts for most people to wrap their minds around in the world of jazz harmony (13th chords and the such) is that many notes can be ommited (especially on a limited voicing instrument like guitar) and the overall sound can still be heard or implied by the music. You don't need every note found in a textbook definiton of a chord to fufil the overall function of a chord. Sometimes the best voicings are the most open, thinnest ones.

 

 

Indeed. Another thing that's hard to grok at first is that the root is not the most important note (especially if you're playing with bassist who's going to be covering roots and fifths). In terms of getting information about the chord quality, you really only need to hear the third and seventh. Many of my favorite voices are 3/7/9/13.