Members alez Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Chaps, A guitar player friend of mine is using some chord I don't know how to name (he arpeggiates it more than anything). Guitar neck as follows (sorry about notation, I don't play guitar myself): 6th string: not played5th string: 2nd fret, B4th string: open, D3rd string: open, G2nd string: 1st fret, C1st string: open, E (although he favours the sound of the chord without this note, he kind of removed it later) Context for this is the following changes for a song in the key of Am: || Am7 | this chord | CMaj | Dm7 DMaj(#5) || Can you give a hand with naming the chord, any hints on how the chord works or how to approach improvisation over it would be great as well. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Herr Masel Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 C9/B? Maybe C9maj7? I'm not so great with naming chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Forgot: the song is played without a bass, so the bass for this chord is the note B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 How about Csus2maj7/B or something? Way too weird and I suspect it gives no information as for the way the chord works? I mean, 4th inversion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Am I seeing this right?... X20010 If the root is B then the chord is a B chord! 1 b3 #5 b9 11 B D G C e So I would say Bm#5b9add11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 ...but if it's in the key of C, then C(9)/B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jazzbo Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 The real function of that chord is to walk up from the Am7 to the Cmaj7 chord... with the B in the bass... you could call it a Cmaj7sus2, basically it's just the three notes that are common to a C chord and an Am7 chord with the B in the bass.... or a kind of G chord with that C added on top of it... normally one would play something likex3002x (G/B) or x1022x (implying Am/B) but that's ok becasue it is your friend's song and he can do whatever he likes... anyway, solo in key of C major from the Am all the way to the Dm, the Dmaj#5 chord requires the F# and Bb.... the chord in question is a passing chord that animates the motion form Am to C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 That is a fantastic explanation Jazzbo, thank you. And thanks to you guys too for your thoughts. Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mumford Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 1st Inversion G11, without hearing it in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joenovice Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Very simple... in context.... Cmaj9/B points for Herr Masel;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members booher Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 I was thinking more along the lines of a Gsus4 with a 6 in there. If he doesn't play the E, then it's GBDC. C is the 4th of G. Sounds good enough to me. But i guess it's also context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joenovice Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 In order to be a Sus chord the B would have to be replaced by C or A. Sus chords do not have a 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Hey, thank you very much everyone!! I think it's all perfectly clear now. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Although.. Originally posted by joenovice Very simple... in context.... Cmaj9/B points for Herr Masel;) One last question gentlemen, is this still valid if he doesn't play the 1st string at all? Can you still say it's a CMaj9 when there's no third? Or do you need to name it Csus2.. with the maj 7th extension and a B bass?? Or does the Maj 7th extension imply somehow a major 3rd even if it is not played, thus CMaj9/B? Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joenovice Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Cmaj7sus2/B? Gadd11/B? or ....... Bmin 6/9 Actually this is where it becomes more ambiguous. Is the E played in the melody? Is the C played in the melody? Typically if the 3rd is not present then the chord takes on a new name. It's common to omit the 5th but there are never situations where the 3rd is omitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jazzbo Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by alez Although.. One last question gentlemen, is this still valid if he doesn't play the 1st string at all? Can you still say it's a CMaj9 when there's no third? Or do you need to name it Csus2.. with the maj 7th extension and a B bass?? Or does the Maj 7th extension imply somehow a major 3rd even if it is not played, thus CMaj9/B? Cheers, Alex Right, the reason I called it sus2 instead of 9 is becuase 1. there is no third and 2. the D note is below both the C and G - while you might ocassionally have a voicing with a 9 below the root, it's unlikely on guitar, but below both the 5th and the root it has a different tonality from an upper extension - just my 2 cents.... by the way, when I played it, arpeggiating like you said your friend does, it really sounds like a G chord... it's just a natural thing to do on guitar to move your middle finger from the 2nd fret 4th string to the 2nd fret 5th string, as a walking bass line from the open A to the C... if you were to get really technical it implies G11 but lacks the 7th... sounds nice though.... doesn't seem to need any alteration... actually, as Joe Novice noted it could be called G/B add 11, I think that's a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tarv Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by jazzbo Right, the reason I called it sus2 instead of 9 is becuase 1. there is no third and 2. the D note is below both the C and G - while you might ocassionally have a voicing with a 9 below the root, it's unlikely on guitar, but below both the 5th and the root it has a different tonality from an upper extension - just my 2 cents....by the way, when I played it, arpeggiating like you said your friend does, it really sounds like a G chord... it's just a natural thing to do on guitar to move your middle finger from the 2nd fret 4th string to the 2nd fret 5th string, as a walking bass line from the open A to the C... if you were to get really technical it implies G11 but lacks the 7th... sounds nice though.... doesn't seem to need any alteration...actually, as Joe Novice noted it could be called G/B add 11, I think that's a winner thats what i call it, Gadd11 in 1st inversion. But if it had the E, i'd call Cmaj9/B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 It's common to omit the 5th but there are never situations where the 3rd is omitted. How? I mean, the very concept of sus chords is to describe chords not having a third, hence my confusion. Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joenovice Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Originally posted by alez How? I mean, the very concept of sus chords is to describe chords not having a third, hence my confusion. Cheers, Alex Sorry for not being more clear. I was referring to Major, dominate, minor, and diminished chords. Basically everything but the SUS must have the 3rd present. (speaking in terms of triad construciton.... quintal and quartal harmony can generate some less than traditional results) That's also what I meant by saying Typically if the 3rd is not present then the chord takes on a new name. If there is no 3rd then it is called a sus or is renamed with a different root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alez Posted March 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Thank you very much Joenovice and everyone else, most useful, I think I can tackle it now Cheers, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jkg Posted March 10, 2006 Members Share Posted March 10, 2006 Em7(b13)/B Kinda a phrygian chord (used as a IIIrd grade chord), think of the Am7- "CHORD"- Cmaj7 progression as a VIm-IIIm-Imaj prog. play that chord, then play the progression using a plain Em chord instead of that chord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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