Pentatonics

[TeleMan1985]

Hey guys. I've been working hard on my stuff for a while now and the improvement is showing. I've got the 5 positions in my bag, can play 'em fluently, quicky, without errors and I'm getting good at linking them all together rather than just being stuck in one box. But it still feels like something is missing. When I practice over a chord progression on my looper, nothing sounds right. I don't know how to explain it. It's just sounds wrong. Because I'm concentrating so hard on my playing, I'm not hearing the chords and so it just all seems out. And the other thing that's not there, is that it's just not that musical. I find myself just going up and down the scales alot - I can't get that whole flowing SRV blues thing going on.

 

So, is there something I'm missing? Anyone have any tips? I know practicing is a big part, I am practicing, but I think practicing in the right way is more important...

[mugwump]

For starters try this (assuming you haven't already):
Rocord a simple I-IV-V loop. When you end a phrase, try to make sure you land on the root or 5th of the chord you are playing over. That should sound "right".

You can use any of the 5 positions if you're aware of where those notes are.

[Dubb]

Well apparently there are two problems you've identified:

it's just not that musical.

First of all, are you sure these are not the same problem? #2 could be the real culprit behind #1. But assuming for a moment that it's not... make sure that, A.) you're playing in the right key, B.) you're playing over a progression that calls for minor pentatonic (I'm assuming this is the pentatonic scale you've learned). While there are some notable exceptions, typically minor pentatonic is played only over minor-key progressions.

 

As for the second issue, lack of musicality... you're still relatively new to improvising, right? Well then of course you don't sound nearly as "musical" as SRV! At these early stages you shouldn't be so hard on yourself, you're still learning. You mentioned that right now you concentrate so hard on your playing that you barely seem to hear the chords. Well, with experience it won't take nearly as much concentration to play, and you'll be able to tune into the progression much easier. But here's a tip to speed up the progress of your musicality. Sing (yes, sing out loud) the notes that you are playing. You don't have to be a singer, you just have to match pitch with the notes that you play on your guitar. You can sing "la la la," "da da da," or just random scat syllables, it doesn't matter. The point of this is to internalize the sound of the notes. Singing is the key to internalizing the sound, simply hearing or playing them won't do it well. After doing this for a while, you'll be able to hear in your head beforehand the notes that you play. You will sound infinitely more musical. This is part of my practice routine, and trust me, it works. You should do this for at least a portion of your practice sessions every day, although ideally you would always sing when you improvise.

 

[Jeremy3]

What chords are you playing over, and what pentatonic scale are you using over each chord?

[astring]

for SRV this may help:
http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Signature-Licks-Vaughans-Featuring/dp/B00008G90N/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/103-6411281-8147037?ie=UTF8&qid=1180300258&sr=1-1
I think SRV did some other stuff chordy stuff but I do not play his tunes so I am not sure

[TeleMan1985]

What chords are you playing over, and what pentatonic scale are you using over each chord?

 

 

Mostly just a I - IV - V 12 Bar, with either major or minor pentatonics. My main troubles are with the chord changes - that's where it all sounds wrong...

[Marc G]

well...firstly are you sure you're in the right key??? and secondly.... I know when I started learning the pentatonics almost everything I played sounded like I was just runing a scale.... it wasn't very musical at all.... it was only after I "forgot" the scales I started playing some decent licks and solos. By "forgot" i'm just talking about getting your brian off of the pattern view of the scale and getting used to the scale and location of notes so that your ear takes over and not your concious effort to stay in the scale/key.

[wes37]

Landing on the third (or bending to it) is also good.

[WhiskeyClone]

Don't play scales over the chords... it will just sounds like scales. Play licks constructed from the pentatonic. If you don't know any, you can either look some up on the net, or pick them out from recordings.

 

The notes that sound good tend to be the notes in the chord you are playing over.

[bgator]

Mostly just a I - IV - V 12 Bar, with either major or minor pentatonics. My main troubles are with the chord changes - that's where it all sounds wrong...

 

 

There are a couple things that you could do that might help with the chord changes. First, try using different major/minor pentatonic scales. So, if you're playing a 12 bar in A, when the progression moves to the IV (which is D), then switch to the D pentatonic scale. When it moves back to the I, then switch back to the A pentatonic scale.

 

Another thing you could do is stress certain notes in the pentatonic scale depending on where you are in the progression. If you've learned all the patterns, the next step is to learn were certain notes are within each of the pattern. For any given pattern, you should be able to quickly know where the roots are, where the IVs are, where the Vs are, etc...

 

Now, if you're playing a 12 bar in A, when the progression moves to the IV, stay with the A minor pentatonic scale but stress the IV (i.e., D) in the licks that you play. When it moves back to the I, switch the emphasis away from the IV and back to the I. Of course, it gets a lot more complicated than this (i.e., which other notes you should stress and when), but this is a good place to start.

 

Finally, don't play too fast. At this stage you're not going to be able to fly through the pentatonic scales like SRV and have it sound good. Start with a small theme and repeat that theme through the progression, although with some variation and embellishments.

[TeleMan1985]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I've been trawling the forum for old threads on this for the last half hour and I think I'm starting to see my problem - I'm just trying to do to much to quickly. Because I've learnt famous solos from tabs for a long time and have no problem ripping through those, now I have these 5 shapes nailed I'm trying to do the same. I putting a progression down on my looper and then just going hell for leather over the top. That's no good. I think what I need to do, is get a progression looping and then start slowly, play with a couple of notes nice and slowly for a start and really listen, and then try another couple of notes and do the same etc etc, until I gradually start to build it up. I think most of the advice in this thread has lead me to that conclusion to. Thanks guys

[Jed]

You'll do well with this approach. You sound like you are stanrting to see further down the rabbit-hole. As long as you are not afraid of the dark (and new things), you'll do fine.

 

You may want to take the solos that you know and see how they fit into and around the new patterns you've learned.

 

cheers,

[Jeremy3]

Mostly just a I - IV - V 12 Bar, with either major or minor pentatonics. My main troubles are with the chord changes - that's where it all sounds wrong...

 

 

What chords though? I mean like major, minor, dominant, etc.