MC-808 Manual and Sound and Parameter List are up!

[MuzikB]

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=1070

 

Time for a hopefully good read.

[MuzikB]

No Analog Feel!

 

:(

[asynchro_nous]

MuzikB --

 

How does the "Random Modify" feature on the 909 and 808 compare with the randomizing features on previous Roland stuff?

 

The "analog feel" parameter on my XV-5080 is great, and the 5080 also allows detailed randomization of pitch, panning, etc. Even my MC-505 does random panning, and I was surprised to see that the 909 does not have this (although there may be a workaround....??) and apparently the 808 is the same architecture as the 909.....

 

To me randomization parameters are very important for imparting subtle organicity (?) to digital sounds and it seems that the newer Roland stuff is a bit hobbled in this area......

 

What do you think.. didn't you dump the 909 at one point because of this sort of thing.....?

 

Thanks!

[MuzikB]

 

How does the "Random Modify" feature on the 909 and 808 compare with the randomizing features on previous Roland stuff?

 

 

The Random Modify on the MC-909 was great for coming up with sounds you wouldn't normally create. You could set a few guidelines if I remember correctly and let the machine twist a sound. None of the earlier Roland stuff had this so there really isn't much of a comparison. The MC-808 isn't out yet and I don't have one so I don't know yet if anything has changed in this feature from the MC-909 to the MC-808.

 

I hope I'm reading you write on this question.

 

 

What do you think.. didn't you dump the 909 at one point because of this sort of thing.....?

 

 

Yes I did. I eventually dumped the MC-909 for one of the main reasons of not having "Analog Feel." The random Pitch parameters are IMHO too coarse and don't give sounds the same level of subtle elegance that analog feel does.

 

There are some workarounds but require other equipment to accomplish a comparable level to Analog Feel.

 

1. I have a script edit in Kontakt2 called Analog Oscillators from the Abstrakt KSP Kontakt expansion pack. I went in and fine tuned it a bit more. One could record the phrase and input it into Kontakt to use this feature.

 

2. Bus the MC-808 or MC-909 into a Voyager. Always seems to warm digital sounds up quite nicely.

[asynchro_nous]

Thanks for the response -- I see now that the Random Modify is for programming/tweaking and not for designing randomization into the way the sounds play back in terms of panning, pitch, ADSR shape, etc.............

 

My XV-5080 has two midi inputs, and I'm kind of looking for the ultimate pair of controllers (I'm thinking a keyboard + "groovebox" type box replete with knobs, sliders, sequencing) to allow optimal freaking of the 5080's rather deep parameters in real time.......

 

I'm thinking maybe a Novation X-Station + something like a 909 or 808 (the 808's 8 motorized faders make it an especially interesting option) ....

[ShakaCthulu]

The 909's interface has spoiled me. The 808 has some advantages, but the interface is nowhere near as good.

 

Finally encountered a Roland rep online (Jupiter must've been in the third house of Orion) and politely asked him to pass up the ladder our petition for a 909 upgrade that fixes its major bugs. His response was one word "MC808". Vsynth or no , I'm through with Roland for good.

[asynchro_nous]

Originally posted by lhm1138 (Jupiter must've been in the third house of Orion)

 

 

That's funny......

 

Yeah, I'm a Roland fan overall but they really seem to be losing it. Why would you strip out complex editing features found in the 5080 that really would make the 909 and 808 the ultimate tabletop PCM-based synthesizers? Would it have been such a big deal to leave that stuff intact and just port the code over? I don't know, maybe they have very good reasons for not doing so, but it just seems odd....

 

Why are they apparently discontinuing the VC card series for the V-Synth when they barely got started? I was really hoping they would open up development of the VC cards to 3rd parties like they did with the effects cards for their VS multitrack recorders. Instead, they seem to be abandoning the VC concept altogether......

 

 

When the MC909 first came out I was really excited to get one until I realized what all was left out of its synth architecture. A big reason I've held off on getting the V-Synth is because I wanted to see what Roland would do with VC card development. Now I'll probably just wait for the used prices of both to continue to drop......

 

Kurzweil needs to get their act together and come up with a Variphrase technology of their own. I'll bet if they did it would have a much less tinny sound than the V-Synth does............

 

Wake up, Kurz, Wake UP!!!

 

[KIDKEYS]

You asked him about a replacement for the MC909 - What did you expect???

[your fat mom]

i think it is quite fitting that the numbering system goes down, from 909 to 808 for their new product.

[xavios]

Originally posted by your fat mom i think it is quite fitting that the numbering system goes down , from 909 to 808 for their new product.

Yeah I did think it was strange, maybe it is because it will be marketed to te "hip-hop crowd".

 

 

 

Btw, I have been waiting a very long time for you to get your avatar.

 

You have not let me down!

[ShakaCthulu]

 

Originally posted by KIDKEYS You asked him about a replacement for the MC909 - What did you expect???

 

 

No first-time poster, I didn't ask for a replacement. Maybe you're bad with numbers: it's the MC808, not MC909 mkII. I asked him to deliver a petition (if he could) that addresses the bugs on a machine I paid almost $1500 for, bugs that directly affect the tasks Roland claimed it could perform. He could've just said "I don't really have the power to do that", but instead, I got the standard Roland hype-reply..."Hey, look over here at this flashy new thing!". Why the hell would I chuck another $1000+ out the window?

 

Fool me once, and all that....

[MuzikB]

Originally posted by lhm1138 Finally encountered a Roland rep online (Jupiter must've been in the third house of Orion) and politely asked him to pass up the ladder our petition for a 909 upgrade that fixes its major bugs. His response was one word "MC808". Vsynth or no , I'm through with Roland for good.

 

That's a shame, but understand the beast. Roland doesn't tend to look back. They move on. All the Development into the MC-909 ended when to MC-808 got the go ahead for consumer development. That's just the way many companies operate.

 

You just have to read these companies a bit and decide if use of the unit will outweigh it's probable longevity. Here's some points I've been putting in the back of my head.......

 

1. Roland Grooveboxes have yet to be staples for fanatic longevity. Akai holds this title with their MPC line.

 

2. Although the MV-8000 is very interesting to me, would round out my studio nicely, and some very talented producers use it, it still doesn't get very high marks from the pro's that "I" take advice from. It has also been out for 5 years now I believe and has yet to be reviewd by Sound on Sound. I believe this says something in itself.

 

3. Part of the reason I returned my copy of Logic Pro is because of the direction Apple is going with their intel based chips. Sooner or later, the Power PC line will be abandoned. Do I really want to pay that much for a program and spend all the time learning it when I can see the end of the line coming and Ableton's Live does everything I need?

 

 

Just some thoughts.

[your fat mom]

Originally posted by xavios Yeah I did think it was strange, maybe it is because it will be marketed to te "hip-hop crowd".

 

i have long suspected that the hardware market has suffered due to the fact that many companies realized there was a whole new group of generally less informed users out there. A group of users who would allow them to remain profitable while not really pushing product development at the rate that used to be expected.

 

 

p.s. glad you like the avatar

[ShakaCthulu]

 

Originally posted by MuzikB That's a shame, but understand the beast. Roland doesn't tend to look back. They move on.

 

 

Oh yes, you're entirely correct.

 

Move on they will, and move on I will, with my back turned squarely on anything they have to offer.

 

BTW, I seem to remember someone recently came up with a hack in the editor where you could access the analog feel parameter. IIRC that was a big deal for you, I'll try to find where I saw that, it might've been on http://errorprojects.com/MC909.

[MuzikB]

Well LHM, you don't have to abandon them totally. Just go for their older stuff (which to me anyway is their better stuff), just grab stuff from them that meets your wants/needs, or get stuff you like from them that really leaves them no room to screw it up.

 

The SP-404 for instance meets a specific need and really leaves no room for error. Hell if Roland screwed up something as simple as that, they'd have some real problems.

 

This is why I'm more interested in the SH-201. It meets a need/want and doesn't really leave room for error. If Roland can't get a simple Polysynth right then they will surely suffer for it as they did with the Fantom series.

 

When Roland is ON they're ON. You can't deny that their products are often at the forefront of new genres in music. The JP8000 for example pretty much spawned Trance but there seems to be a lot of strike outs before they hit that grand slam.

 

Just stick with the safer stuff until they hit that grand slam again.

[Analog Kid]

I love Roland. Love them so much that I've hated them as long as anybody around here?

There are so many tangents in this thread it's hard to comment succintly on the whole Roland situation. Hmnn, where to start?

 

First, the 808 is probably a better interface than people are giving it credit for. After all the motorized faders give an immediate visual feedback that only the Nord Lead 3 and a few others can manage. I Imagine working with that setup would be sweet as pie once you got used to seeing your envelopes shape themselves with a button push. Cool stuff.

What's not so hot about that is I dont see any mode explicitally for external control. They should have added one more row called "external" or 'assignable"- haven't read the manual yet though.

Still, with 128 voices of the XV engine, i have no doubt that the sound sculpting tools are there for a very full production.

 

Analog feel- never been a big fan but some of my synths have had them. The DJ-mkII, the MV-30. Hmnn, maybe another one of them, but im not sure. Perhaps a subtle use of it really does help- I could try using it more.

 

The current state of Roland is mixed. I have no doubt that there are still some amazing products in their lineup. Some of their best boxes ever, so it's not fair to say that they've simply faded away.

I think the Fantom series and the G-70 are easily their best Rompler's ever, no offense to the 990.

I think the TD-20 is such an incredible box. I haven't regretted the $1700 bucks i spent on it, but obviously it would be nice to see the V-drums stuff come down.

The V-Synth XT looks to be their best synth module yet, but is easily one thousand dollars over priced. C'mon I dont really believe they couldn't sell the module at $1300 and make a profit. I think they just gave up on the prosumer and went after the "got to much money for my own good" set. Have they sold more than a few dozen of these? Still wouldn't mind one at all, maybe one day.

The VariOS seems a much better deal to me. I see them going for very nice prices, and I recommend one to anybody (well, anybody who can understand what to do with a box that doesn't have the control surface attached to it) Even if development stops on the VC cards for RCore, what is already available is a very heavy suite of applications. Hell, just the D-50 would make it one of the best synths on market, in my ever so humble evaluation.

V-Card development might not have stagnated. True, i say this with all the naivety of a jilted lover expected their sweetheart to return at any moment. Maybe it has.

It is a shame if that is the case- so much potential. Perhaps they are just waiting for the next RCore device before they press on with it, after all, the V-Synth is the only RCore that has probably sold in good numbers. Doubt the VariOS moved that many units and I know the V-XT couldnt have.

 

Anyways, Roland, by any measure, kicks ass, just look at the V-Accordion. Still, we all know they are only hitting on one buttock- if they really harnessed their enormous potential they would send the heiney right out of the park.

 

The MC-808 is a great synth, but obviously the interface is much different from the 909, or any of the other MC's. I for one, approve. The 909 is a bloated UI, IMHO. I don't like the size.

So, to each his own.

[Guest Anonymous]

As a MC-909 user the one thing that gets me is only having 16 tracks to write with. I actually use this to limit myself on how much a Pattern will have going on. The negative is sometimes I need/want more tracks without tracking the Pattern/Song out. I have thought about getting another MC-909 but, know this would be redundant. I downloaded the MC-808 manual and see that it does have a lot of new sounds in it. The main problem I have with the 808 is the display but, figured out a way around this. If I am writing a track in a Pattern that needs editing I could write the part in the 909 and then play it into the 808 while it is in record mode. This would be no different than playing it live since the 808 will just see it as midi info. Display problem solved. It will also give me another 512mb of sample capability. So with one midi cable I will have 32 tracks but, will use two so either one one could trigger the other. I have already purchased another On-Stage MIX-400 stand and am waiting for the MC-808 to ship.

 

[ShakaCthulu]

The sustain thing in song mode is what really gets me...it's not so noticeable at faster "techno" bpms, but when you're doing alot of down tempo stuff like I do, it's very noticeable and not professional. There's also a bug in the latest os that prevents you from muting/unmuting track 6 +13 at the same time, which has really screwed me up live a few times. I can't say that I wouldn't pick up a VSynth if one came up USED at a nice price, but as far as new, Roland has lost me for good. Their general attitude sucks, and I will exercise some principles and not encourage it by giving them anymore of my H.E.$. I won't deny that they have made many great pieces (System100 comes to mind), I love their interfaces and construction, and they still come out with nice equipment like the Vsynth and FantomX. If I didn't care, I wouldn't try over and over and over again to get some sort of response for the 909 Community. At least I did try. I put it in Jah's hands. Goodbye Roland, I'll keep my 909 despite it's major problems, my Alpha Juno1, my JV1080, and my Boss stuff, but from now on YOU'RE OFF THE CHRISTMAS CARD LIST!

[aeon]

Originally posted by MuzikB That's a shame, but understand the beast. Roland doesn't tend to look back. They move on. All the Development into the MC-909 ended when to MC-808 got the go ahead for consumer development. That's just the way many companies operate.

 

Understood.

 

That said, such companies, Roland included, should make sure their sh1t *works* before moving on.

 

Especially true given that saying "X" does "Y" as part of the sales pitch when in fact "X" does not do "Y" is *illegal* in some parts.

 

No matter how "cool" a new piece is, if the perceived style of a company is "they release buggy and flawed stuff, and they never fix it, and just release more buggy and flawed stuff," the end result will be that the company loses customers.

 

To wit, the last time I purchased anything new from Roland was...exactly 15 years ago!

 

Which is too bad for them, because there have been many times I have considered Roland stuff in that timeframe, but knowing it was buggy and not going to be supported kept me away.

 

Roland is more about hype now than offering a quality product. They can prove me wrong by fixing the MC-909.

 

 

end rant,

Ian

[MuzikB]

 

Originally posted by aeon Understood. That said, such companies, Roland included, should make sure their sh1t *works* before moving on. Especially true given that saying "X" does "Y" as part of the sales pitch when in fact "X" does not do "Y" is *illegal* in some parts. No matter how "cool" a new piece is, if the perceived style of a company is "they release buggy and flawed stuff, and they never fix it, and just release more buggy and flawed stuff," the end result will be that the company loses customers. Ian

 

 

 

You'd think that a company of Roland's scope could ensure that most of the kinks are worked out n their products but even Roland or Yamaha, or Korg can't find everything although I think Korg is much better at this than the other two.

 

I've given Roland my fair share of doe over the years and have been pretty peeved at them myself. The best advice is to simply speak with your money.