Question for gennation re: the superimposed scale

[black cobra]

Hi Gennation,

The superimposed scale system works well over major blues chord progressions, I, IV V. How would The superimposed scale work over a more european, diatonic chord progressions like:

 

I, iii, IV, V?

 

Edited to add that this is probably covered in the more advance lessons, right?

[gennation]

Actually this as whole is really geared toward "Dominant" based music. IOW, that scale works everytime over a dom7 chord. But as noted throughout, it's basically a chromatic scale, and using your ears will allow you to use it everywhere.

 

Case in point, if you read through the tutorial, you'd notice the first thing I do in establishing the sound for you is use the b3->M3 sound over and over in the first few lessons. This is the basis of the Dom7 sound you've heard Chuck Berry, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Dicky Betts, Alvin Lee, Albert Lee, Pete Anderson, Ricky Skaggs, Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller, etc, etc...ALL use this.

 

You'll also notice in the lessons that you can drag this scale from Chord Root to Chord Root in a I-IV-V progression and it's EVERYTHING you've always heard players play before but wasn't in the Blues scale. All of this is explained in detail in the tutorial.

 

But, now what happens if you are playing over a m7 chord? Would you continue to use this scale? Maybe not all those Blues, Rock, Country, or Jazz licks I showed, but ALL the Minor sounds are in that scale too! It's Chromatic scale so, except for microtones, every note you'd ever use are going is going to be in there.

 

So, as I "targeted" the notes/arp of the dom7 chords throughout the lessons, you would "target" the notes/arp of the m7 chords or you would "target" the notes/arps of the maj7 chords.

 

The super-imposed scale just gets you closer to finding the "other notes", not playing up and down scales aimlessly, but playing "against" chords, and in case of EVH or some...find many strange groups of notes that STILL work over the chords.

 

I have another idea that points to a chromatic scale that I use to teach too, it has to do with Modal Skeletons and how Minor Notes are Minor Notes and Major Notes and Major note and how they can be injected into the Skeletons. It more of just a tool I use as opposed to the super-imposed scale, but it leads to some pretty open improv material, but again it drives you closer to a Chromatic scale and note options.

 

Here's a great Chromatic view of playing over Minor, in this case Dm. Right out of Miles Davis and Coltrane's chops...

 

Dm

E--------------------------------------9--10--12--13--10------

B--------------------------9--10--12-----------------------10-

G---9----------9--10--12--------------------------------------

D------11--12-------------------------------------------------

A--------------------------------------------------------------

E--------------------------------------------------------------

 

That's basically Miles lead in to his solo in Dear Old Stockholm, but in Dm it uses the M7 and b5 and Nat 6 of a Natural D Minor tune. And it's also out of that Super-imposed scale. There's a TON of other great Minor stuff in that scale, also in Miles little run...he does a similar thing in his solo in So What JUST before he moves to the Ebm7 the FIRST time...this would be in D Dorian help anticipate Eb Dorian...

 

Dm7

E-------------------9--10--12--15--12--

B---------------10----------------------

G---9--10--12--------------------------

D---------------------------------------

A---------------------------------------

E---------------------------------------

 

Again Miles uses the M7 Interval with a "Minor" sound. Of course this points to D Harm Min or D Mel Min...but he really only uses the the ONE interval and not really a WHOLE scale concept.

 

I should update those lessons and include some of these directly related Minor runs from the scale.

 

Or try playing a Augmented type scale from the the b3 of a m7 chord. It gives you the b3 4 b5 b7 9 b3. Like so over Am7...

 

Am7

E-------------------------------7--8--10

B----------------------------8-

G---------------4--5--7--8-------

D------------5------------------

A---3--5--6------------------------

E--------------------------------

 

Works nicely. Kind of like a Minor b5 scale.

 

All of this is in the Super-Imposed scale, but it LESS M3rdy, but all the notes are in there.

 

Actually, here's an Eddie connection I found a long time ago. Another one Eddie does in various places, most notably the last lick of Ice Cream Man, is out of this super-imposed scale too. Something to this effect...

 

 

 

That's a repetitive fingering that just repeats across two strings (same lick/fingering - different set of strings).

 

Eddie was definitely one of the guys that uses this "Dominant" approach to playing over everything. I copped a lot of his stuff in the early days by viewing all these chromatic and symmetric phrases from the super-imposed scale.

 

I do have to update that tutorial with some new stuff based more on Minor and Maj7 stuff along with the Diatonic connection BUT YOU have everything you need to start playing the scale and listening your way through it.

 

I'll try and get back more examples based on your progression, cause there's a TON of classic chromtic half-step stuff and altered stuff you can do on that particular progression you posted. But, you should have enough fuel here hit maj7, m7, and dom7 chords now.

[Dubb]

It really depends what sort of sound you're going for.

You could use the chromatic elements of the "superimposed" scale over those sorts of progressions to inject a more blues-rock sort of feeling, although it probably won't feel like as much of a "perfect fit" as it often does over the more traditionally bluesy progressions.

It's important to remember that musical ideas don't span a spectrum from right to wrong, good to bad. Rather, they range from consonant to dissonant. The "superimposed" scale generally leans towards the dissonant side. Is that bad? Not necessarily; it depends on the musical context, your personal taste, etc. In the context of more "European," diatonic progressions, there is often a slight preference for consonance as opposed to dissonance. But nothing is set in stone. The more you experiment with it, the more you'll learn about how and when to use these superimposed ideas effectively.

[black cobra]

Thanks for the help and replies, gennation and dubb. The super imposed scale is great; it helps you find a non-obvious sound. Now I have to learn to see both scales at once at each box

[black cobra]

But what is the essence of the "super imposed scale"? Is it not combining two basic things to get an advanced concept? In other words, combining two pentatonic scales?

 

For a minor sound what if we combined two minor pentatonic scales? In other words for an A minor sound, what if we combine A minor pentatonic with B minor penatonic? Spelled: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7? Look familiar? Is this not Dorian?

 

Or A minor pentatonic with G minor pentatonic? If you spell that out you will get Phrygian. If you play a G minor pent scale over A minor but resolve to an A minor chord tone, you will have a very useful way of playing the Phrygian scale without sounding "scaley."

 

This is simply taking your idea one step further, gennation.

 

Let's go further out. For an A minor sound, let's try Bb minor pentatonic and A minor pentatonic. You could play the Bb minor pent scale and resolve to an A minor chord tone. What lead lines you could come up with!

[gennation]

You're on the right track, but you can get the "notes" a few other ways too...

 

Diatonically in ANY Key you have three Minor Pentatonic scale. From the Root of the Key, you have one from the 2nd, M3, and 6th, so,

 

In the Key of G Major you have: A Min Pent, B Min Pent, and E Min Pent. You can play in these all day by moving from one individually to the other. IOW, think of them as their own scale. And, move through them freely.

 

With all of this there are some Special Feature contained in them when played against some different chords in a Key.

 

Also, ALL THREE don't always sound the greatest for ALL of the different chords in the Key because of weighted notes, arps and extensions, clashes, etc...Let me try and help you through some of the Special Features.

 

Try these scales for a maj7, m7, and dom7 connection...I'll stay in G.

 

Gmaj7 - try over lapping these two Minor Pentatonic scales... B D E F# A B and E G A B D E

 

You can add Chromatics easily by adding "Blue notes" into those scales like:

 

B D E F F# and E G A Bb B.

 

They're like little sub Blues scales played from the M3 and 6 that are missing the b7 note of each of them.

 

You can lock them in even further with the "missing" Diatonic notes:

 

B C D E F F# and E F# G A Bb B

 

Try somethings like this:

 

Gmaj7

E--------------------------------

B--------------------------------

G------------------------2--3s4--

D---------2--3s4--2--5-----------

A---2--5-------------------------

E---------------------------------

 

or

 

Gmaj7

E--------------------------------

B---------------------------------

G---4--3--2----------------------

D------------5--2--4--3-2--------

A---------------------------5--2--

E---------------------------------

 

Now move those two little scales around the fretboard EVERYWHERE they show up. There's a lot of George Benson in those two...

 

Again, these notes are in that Chromatic Super-Imposed scale. We are just adjusting things to cover a Gmaj7 premise.

 

With a small change, changing the 11 Interval to a #11 because we are in the Key of G, you could move all of those up the a Cmaj7 and the same licks/pattern will work from the M3 and 6 of Cmaj7, from the perspective of Cmaj7 as the IV chord of G Major.

 

Now lets see what we can do Am7 in the Key of G, these could be considered "A Dorian Chromatics", but still directly related to the scales you learn in my tutorial...

 

Am7 - For A Dorian you have THREE Minor Pentatonic scales that work nicely: A C D E G and E G A B D and B D E F# A

 

In reality, the ones from A and E ALWAYS work but the one from E works best just before coming back to Am7 from another Diatonic chord. The one from B is kind of a "leading scale" if you will on out way back to Am7.

 

You can also add the Blue Note to all of these adding more chromatics:

 

A C D Eb E G and E G A Bb B D and B D E F F# A

 

You can complete them Diatonically like this:

 

A B C D Eb E G and E F# G A Bb B D and B C D E F F# A

 

Now you can have lines like so:

 

Am7

E----------------------------------------------------------------------

B----------------------------------------------------------------------

G---------------------------------------------------------------------

D----------8s9--7------7------9--8--7---------------------------------

A---7--10----------10------------------10--9--7--5--7--6--5----------

E--------------------------------------------------------------8--7--5-

 

or

 

E------------6s7--5-----------------------------

B---------5----------8--7--5--------------------

G------5----------------------7s9--8--7---------

D---7-------------------------------------10--7-

A------------------------------------------------

E------------------------------------------------

 

All those little Min Pent/Blues Pent/Blues Diatonic connections ALL put chromatic passages in your hands...BUT...

 

When you look at them as little "areas" individually they break up the "scaley" sound of playing something thinking Root to Root. And in reality...

 

the individual scales of A B C D and E F# G A together create a FULL A Dorian scale: A B C D E F# G A, you're just breaking things up in the middle and then I've showed you how to add chromatics.

 

Now, the D7 from the Key of G Major:

 

D7 - There are three Minor Pents for a D7: A C D E and E G A B and B D E F#

 

The A C D E is probably the most usable, the one from B is probably the second most usable. So, let's add a Blue Note to them: A C D Eb E and B D E F F#

 

And let's add the missing Diatonic notes...

 

A B C D Eb E and B C D E F F#

 

Now let's create a lick using the one from A:

 

D7

 

E-----------------------------------------11s12--10--

B---------------------------------10--13-------------

G------------------------12--11----------------------

D-----------12--13--14-------------------------------

A--12--15--------------------------------------------

E-----------------------------------------------------

 

See how it starts and ends with the same group of notes an octave apart (A C D Eb E), and it uses a little Diatonic connector between them on the G string.

 

How about this using both the ones from B and A:

 

D7

 

E-------------------------------------------

B--------------------------------------------

G--11--10--9---------------------------------

D--------------12--10--14--13--12-----------

A------------------------------------14--12--

E---------------------------------------------

 

I have a million little things like these that I can add when looking at full progressions whether they are Modal of Function progressions/songs. It's actually the premise of a book I'm putting together.

 

To hear this stuff in action check this out...Am7->Bb9 in the verse part and then it locks into G7: http://test.mikedodge.com/mvdmusic/MikeD/AntGrooveMix.mp3

 

The Am7 stuff is really nothing but Am7 arps and those little Min/Blues scales with in G Major. And over the G7 you can hear the strenth of the Super-Imposed scale mixed with those little Min/Blues Pents from the 5th and 6 of G7. For the Bb79 instances I'm just using Bb7 arps with Bb Super-Imposed as well as Abmaj7 arps. There's also a Dmin9/Db7#9/Cmaj9/F9 change in the middle.

 

Cool stuff!!! I do need to update the site with some of this, but these ideas along with it's use over common chord progressions is going to be the heart of my book. So, I'm only going to scratch the surface on my site to show you what you can play, and then the book will cover it in SERIOUS detail.