Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 An odd question Got any ideas on playing melodies over a blues progression? ie the A-Team theme over a 12 bar or Knight Rider??? Im gonna start tonight trying these, im playing an open mic night soon and was gonna throw in some sort of medley of TV/Film themes, over blues progressions (as thats what they always seem to be) if possible, just to get peoples attention... Dunno if any will work of course, anybody tried anything like this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 You mean what jazz folk call "quotes". It's a lot of fun, and I sometimes attempt this kind of thing myself - esp at Christmas, when I see how many carol tunes I can cram into "Run Rudolph Run"... The problem, if course, is fitting them to the chord sequence. If your well-known tune is already a 12-bar, easy! If it isn't, you need to be able to play a reasonable (recognisable) section of it over one chord without any notes clashing. (With those carols, there's a surprising number that spend a while on one chord....)I know a few TV/film themes (mainly because I teach kids ), but I haven't tried quoting any in a blues myself. Yet.... The Simpsons theme is a great example: the whole of the main tune is 4 bars long, and on one chord (C7#11); and you can mutate that #4 into a blues b5 as you come out of it. (If you want to really raise eyebrows, play the whole thing a tritone away from your key... It will work, kind of, because C7#11 resolves to Bmaj. If B was your IV chord, hey presto... You'd need a blues in F# to play the theme in its original key, but you can transpose can't you?)I can see the A-team could work - although its 4 bars ends on the V, the notes will harmonise OK with a I7 (there's a useful b7 in the tune too).Star Wars main theme could work. Again it ends on a V, but the notes will harmonise with a I9sus4.You could probably make the Raiders March work - the 2nd bar would fit a blues which went to IV in bar 2. There's a few awkward notes (V chord in bar 3 means notes maj7 and 4 against a blues tonic chord), but if you're on a roll the clashes could just sound funny. As with Star Wars, there are of course non-bluesy major 3rds all the way, but you could flatten them a little for another joke. It also works if continued into bars 5-6, and on into 7-8. Trouble is then, people will expect the tune to go round again, and your blues will be into bars 9-12 at that point.Pink Panther fits nicely into a medium tempo shuffle. It's minor key, of course, but we blues players know about putting a minor scale on top of major chords, right? You get a nice juicy b5 in bar 3. Again, there's problems if you want to extend it beyond the first 4 bars - you end up on a long maj7 note in bar 7 (which would be the b7 on a bII chord in the original). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 I actually figured the Simpsons theme out the other day! The chords underneath will be the challenge, ill give it a go, i used to sit there and figure out TV themes, adverts all the time so ive got a few to try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 You mean what jazz folk call "quotes". It's a lot of fun, and I sometimes attempt this kind of thing myself - esp at Christmas, when I see how many carol tunes I can cram into "Run Rudolph Run"... The problem, if course, is fitting them to the chord sequence. If your well-known tune is already a 12-bar, easy! If it isn't, you need to be able to play a reasonable (recognisable) section of it over one chord without any notes clashing. (With those carols, there's a surprising number that spend a while on one chord....) I know a few TV/film themes (mainly because I teach kids ), but I haven't tried quoting any in a blues myself. Yet.... The Simpsons theme is a great example: the whole of the main tune is 4 bars long, and on one chord (C7#11); and you can mutate that #4 into a blues b5 as you come out of it. (If you want to really raise eyebrows, play the whole thing a tritone away from your key... It will work, kind of, because C7#11 resolves to Bmaj. If B was your IV chord, hey presto... You'd need a blues in F# to play the theme in its original key, but you can transpose can't you? ) I can see the A-team could work - although its 4 bars ends on the V, the notes will harmonise OK with a I7 (there's a useful b7 in the tune too). Star Wars main theme could work. Again it ends on a V, but the notes will harmonise with a I9sus4. You could probably make the Raiders March work - the 2nd bar would fit a blues which went to IV in bar 2. There's a few awkward notes (V chord in bar 3 means notes maj7 and 4 against a blues tonic chord), but if you're on a roll the clashes could just sound funny. As with Star Wars, there are of course non-bluesy major 3rds all the way, but you could flatten them a little for another joke. It also works if continued into bars 5-6, and on into 7-8. Trouble is then, people will expect the tune to go round again, and your blues will be into bars 9-12 at that point. Pink Panther fits nicely into a medium tempo shuffle. It's minor key, of course, but we blues players know about putting a minor scale on top of major chords, right? You get a nice juicy b5 in bar 3. Again, there's problems if you want to extend it beyond the first 4 bars - you end up on a long maj7 note in bar 7 (which would be the b7 on a bII chord in the original). Spider-man is another one that ill throw in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 I actually figured the Simpsons theme out the other day! The chords underneath will be the challenge For the Simpsons, it's all (essentially) C7#11 as I said. The original resolves to B after 4 bars, so it's kind of a bII (lydian dominant) chord all the way, hence my idea of playing it a tritone out. (Man, I have to try that myself next gig...)(No need to delve into the rest of the theme, which has a few wild wholetone runs...)Anyway, for quoting you don't need the chords of the original - only the notes, and to test how they fit your blues chords. (4 bars is usually plenty for people to "get" a quote, and the blues offers that ideal 1-chord space at the beginning.)You certainly shouldn't change any of the chords of the tune you're playing in order to accommodate a quote. That's cheating! Of course, there's the other option of actually taking a cool theme and playing it in full as a cover, correct chords and all - but doing it blues-style. (I can hear Star Wars working as an SRV-style shuffle...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 For the Simpsons, it's all (essentially) C7#11 as I said. The original resolves to B after 4 bars, so it's kind of a bII (lydian dominant) chord all the way, hence my idea of playing it a tritone out. (Man, I have to try that myself next gig... ) (No need to delve into the rest of the theme, which has a few wild wholetone runs...) Anyway, for quoting you don't need the chords of the original - only the notes, and to test how they fit your blues chords. (4 bars is usually plenty for people to "get" a quote, and the blues offers that ideal 1-chord space at the beginning.) You certainly shouldn't change any of the chords of the tune you're playing in order to accommodate a quote. That's cheating! Excellent stuff, cheers, ill get cracking when i get home Deffo try the Simpsons one out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Of course, there's the other option of actually taking a cool theme and playing it in full as a cover, correct chords and all - but doing it blues-style. (I can hear Star Wars working as an SRV-style shuffle...) Thats what one of my old bands (i say band, more like mates sat around playing guitar) used to do all the time, Death metal versions on Humpty Dumpty are always a laugh!I might well start a gigging band doing this (not death metal ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 This all reminds me of a great urban myth abut Jimi Hendrix - which could almost be true.There was an idea in the 1960s to get various pop and rock stars to make versions of the "Coronation Street" soap opera theme for an album. It came to nothing n the end, but Jimi's take on it ended up as "Third Stone From the Sun"... I'd seriously love that to be true... Compare and contrast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUg7xl4kKUwThere seems to be no vast body of internet conspiracy theory on this (which is surprising if it were a well-known urban myth), although there are mentions here and there of the similarity of the tunes, and we know Jimi watched Coronation Street in his first London flat, so he could have come up with the idea himself.http://mpelembe.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2010/8/24/4612769.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Thats what one of my old bands (i say band, more like mates sat around playing guitar) used to do all the time, Death metal versions on Humpty Dumpty are always a laugh! I might well start a gigging band doing this (not death metal ) Why not? I'd pay to see a death metal version of Humpty Dumpty. Well, not a lot, but you know...I remember back in the 80s some band doing the reverse: nice doo-wop versions of Anarchy in the UK, that kind of thing... (There's not enough of this kind of stupidity around at the moment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Why not? I'd pay to see a death metal version of Humpty Dumpty. Well, not a lot, but you know...I remember back in the 80s some band doing the reverse: nice doo-wop versions of Anarchy in the UK, that kind of thing... (There's not enough of this kind of stupidity around at the moment.) Funny you should say that, check this guy out, he does loads of songs like this!! [YOUTUBE]fc-V3NYckOI[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Now that's what I call music. So nice to be able to hear the words for a change!If Cannibal Corpse just learned to enunciate more clearly, they could become really successful! They could get a load more wedding and corporate gigs, and maybe even Simon Cowell to manage them! Those poor boys just need a little guidance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Going a little OT here, but you've persuaded me to look up my favourite music comedian Bill Bailey - here's some sketches with at least a passing relevance to the thread:Rock in cockney:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnEtgl0K2Xc&feature=relatedKraftwerk do the hokey-cokey:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiofoXrTIdQ&feature=relatednews themes:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEPcUWk8xEo&feature=relatedU2 malfunction:(You can find him on youtube doing a Hindi-style version of"Creep", but it's rather straight, and good, not really funny at all.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Going a little OT here, but you've persuaded me to look up my favourite music comedian Bill Bailey - here's some sketches with at least a passing relevance to the thread:Rock in cockney:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnEtgl0K2Xc&feature=relatedKraftwerk do the hokey-cokey:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiofoXrTIdQ&feature=relatednews themes:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEPcUWk8xEo&feature=relatedU2 malfunction:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Go2DK9VtQ That U2 bit is class, im gonna have to digout the DVD later, its on Part Troll isnt it? the one were somebody put dope in there Sheperds Pie!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meganutt7 Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 I like quoting tunes alot too, every once in a while.. I like throwing in melodies from beatles tunes, Bob Marley, Bach pieces, TV shows, etc. I will throw in an Elenor Rigby quote, then a Simpsons quote, a small sliver from Bizet's Carmen, maybe a smidge of the Superman theme, or Star Wars, etc. etc. It's a fun thing to do, especially when it's so noticable that people flip out for a second because of the recognition... Fun stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff1979 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 I like quoting tunes alot too, every once in a while.. I like throwing in melodies from beatles tunes, Bob Marley, Bach pieces, TV shows, etc.I will throw in an Elenor Rigby quote, then a Simpsons quote, a small sliver from Bizet's Carmen, maybe a smidge of the Superman theme, or Star Wars, etc. etc.It's a fun thing to do, especially when it's so noticable that people flip out for a second because of the recognition... Fun stuff... Its something im gonna work on for open mic nights, thats for sure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Another tangential anecdote... My no.1 guitar hero Billy Jenkins used to run free improv sessions he called "Big Fight Nights", with the stage set up like a wrestling ring. Duos played at (and I mean "at") each other for a strict 2 minutes dead (ended by a bell). The rules, read out beforehand, were "no biting, no gouging, no standards". Contestants would have points deducted for any recognisable quote. (See, this is what jazz ought to be like all the time...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members [Animals2] Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 It was probably just like this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 It was probably just like this right? No it was more like this... or this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjmjOZGuMQQ&feature=related- but with laughs. Because they had to stop after 2 minutes even if they were really getting inspired.IOW, it was satire: free improv is formless - so let's impose some totally idiotic, rigid limitation on it. And let's make it a competition. (As if music can ever be about winning...)But at the same time - and this is Jenkins's genius - it became a real musical experience, because the bones of the process (communication between musicians) were revealed; it was like naked jazz. I have to say I don't normally enjoy free improv, but those gigs were probably the most profound musical experiences I've ever encountered as a member of an audience (with the possible exception of a rumba in Havana). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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