The 5 Root shapes..?

[andy thompson]

Starting on The Fretboard workbook.

 

Here he mentions Root shapes, I thought there would be 7 or maybe 12, but no there are 5...he then goes on that these 5 root shapes can start on any note on any string, so me, I want to know why.

 

I also am not satisfied that I truly understand Root and Tonic.

 

Does a piece or scale always atart with the root..?

 

Are Root and Tonic the same thing..?

 

 

Just a pointer to further reading or subject heading will do if you are busy...

[bigboy78]

The 5 root shapes I would say are the CAGED shapes. They're based around the shapes of an open C A G E & D chord, hence the name.

 

I'll let more experienced tutors explain the details. It should be a good discussion. Thanks for starting it.

[polishpaul]

Root and tonic are terms for the same thing....

 

...but perhaps give more info on this Fretboard book. Perhaps it's not the best in the world?

 

It sounds like you're looking at the CAGED system. However, you seem to be confused, so stay tuned here for lots of help which should get you on track in ways you understand.

[andy thompson]

The book is..

 

Guitar Fretboard Workbook by Barrett Tagliarino. Musicians Institute Press/Hal Leonard.

 

I like it so far, lots of fingerings, a starting quote that it will take about a year and diagrams you can actually put on a stand and practice, without scanning, upsizing and printing.

 

 

Contents..

5 Root shapes

Whole and half steps

Major scale

5 major scale patterns

Natural minor scale

Pentatonic

Major and perfect intervals

Min Dim Aug intervals

Compound "

Triad arpeggios

Seventh "

Seventh chords

Extensions

Alterations

M(ssshhhhh) modes..( I dont mind Ill sit this one out)

 

Plenty of exercises, naming notes out loud,

 

and thats it.

[polishpaul]

Maybe have a look here to get an overview before you get down to serious study:

 

http://www.howmusicreallyworks.com/

 

Scroll down to the free stuff from his book. It helped me a lot.

[Jed]

 

Does a piece or scale always start with the root..? Are Root and Tonic the same thing..?

 

 

A "root" is the first chord tone of a chord. In the key of A major there are various chords available diatonically (made up of notes from the key only). The I chord (one chord) is A Major. The chord spelling for A major (triad) is A as the root, C# as the 3rd and E as the 5th. In this case an "A" note could be described as both the "tonic" of the key and the "root" of the A triad. For a B minor chord, the chord is spelled (root =) B, (b3rd =) D, (5th =) F#. In this case you could describe a "B" note as the root of the B minor chord but is not the tonic of A major. For a C# minor chord, the chord is spelled (root =) C#, (b3rd =) E, (5th =) G#. In this case you could describe a "C#" note as the root of the C# minor chord but is not the tonic of A major.

 

It might make sense to learn a bit of theory first, so you can understand the basic concepts. I doubt the book Fretboard Logic would do a decent job of explaining theory in any meaningful way.

 

When he talks about "Root shapes" he's talking about the relative shapes that various octaves make on the fretboard - there are six recognizable shapes (ways that an octave can me played using no open strings) for octaves. Fretboard Logic uses these six shapes as mnemonics (memory aids) for learning chord shapes, pentatonic forms and major scales. There are better ways to learn the information. Fretboard Logic isn't bad but it's incomplete and leads to people that don't understand the significance of this information.

 

cheers,

[andy thompson]

Thanks for that, Im going to have to read and reread it, but its exactly what I want...thanks.

 

Its not the Fretboard Logic TM advertised thing, but I guess its in a similar vein. I do have The school of music introduction to theory, grades 1-5 as a companion.

 

Ive just spent money on bridgepins and a set up, family life dictates another theory book will be a little way off, maybe a month or so, but its a start.

[Jed]

You don't really need a book for theory - the fundamentals are pretty basic. It more valuable to learn the fundamentals in all keys than the advanced stuff in only one or two keys (trick statement - there is no advanced stuff - it's all simple stuff just in less common keys). What you need is time and effort with learning major scales (in lots and lots of keys), how chords are constructed using major scales. Simple stuff like that. Check out the basic theory articles @ IBreatheMusic by Guni (Gunharth Randolf) @ http://www.ibreathemusic.com/cat/3

 

Those five or six articles alone are a great intro to basic theory. If you decide to work those articles - do them in order. Music theory is a cumulative skills thing.

 

Or use the music theory info that you already have (grades 1-5?)

 

cheers,

[andy thompson]

Thank you for the pointers, really. Its a little daunting, thinking what should I learn first. Now I have a clear objective thanks.

[gennation]

Wondering what to learn first is a big question.

 

One thing that helps is to realize the difference between learning music theory and learning fretboard theory. Many don't get the difference when they buy books. The fretboard has its own logical map as does music theory. They both exist together as well as separately.

 

Sounds like the book you have is teaching you the way the fretboard is naturally laid out, which will naturally leave you with a lot of questions about music theory. Same thing goes with music theory books, they can leave you wonder or missing how it all lays logically on the fretboard.

 

You need both.

 

If the book you have is dealing with fretboard theory/logic you can supplement it with some music theory. You can use my lessons at http://lessons.mikedodge.com. The lessons will give you an organized, ground up, approach to music theory. Read these links/lessons in order: Intervals, then Chord Construction, then Diatonic Theory.

Make sure you read them in that order and you won't have to wonder where to start or where to go next.

[mcmurray]

 

Fretboard Logic ? A "Tonic" is the first degree of a scale. In C major = C, D, E, F, G, A , B, C - "C" is the "tonic". In D major = D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D - "D" is the "tonic". In Ab minor = Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab - "Ab" is the "tonic".

 

 

Not only that, it's also the tonal center in any piece of tonal music - an extremely important concept.

[andy thompson]

So the tonic is always referenced to the scale and the root is referenced to the chord structure..?

 

 

Mc Murry, Im not sure on etiquette here, I could easily post thread after thread of..to you, banal and repetative questions so Ill start off like the TAB thing in the sticky, Ill do a bit of googling on tonal centres and report back ...thanks

[Jed]

 

So the tonic is always referenced to the scale and the root is referenced to the chord structure..? Mc Murry, Im not sure on etiquette here, I could easily post thread after thread of..to you, banal and repetative questions so Ill start off like the TAB thing in the sticky, Ill do a bit of googling on tonal centres and report back ...thanks

 

 

McMurray is right. Tonic also (possibly most often?) refers to the tonal center of a piece of music. Note that this is the same note as the tonic of the scale that defines the key of the song. And yes again, "root" refers to the 1st note of a chord. As you see these terms are closely related, just used in slightly different contexts.

 

cheers,

[mcmurray]

So the tonic is always referenced to the scale and the root is referenced to the chord structure..? Mc Murry, Im not sure on etiquette here, I could easily post thread after thread of..to you, banal and repetative questions so Ill start off like the TAB thing in the sticky, Ill do a bit of googling on tonal centres and report back ...thanks

 

There is no such thing as a stupid question, especially regarding music theory. Feel free to bombard us

[mcmurray]

Getting back to your original question, Barret's root shapes in Fretboard Workbook are nothing more than a way to visualize octaves across the fretboard. Don't confuse this with the root of a chord or the tonic of a key. As you work through the book you will start to gain a fuller understanding of these concepts.

 

Choose any note on any string on any fret, and the root shapes will point to other like notes in different octaves. For example, 5th string 3rd fret is C, follow the root shapes and you'll find all the other C's that exist on the fretboard.

 

imho they should be called 'octave shapes', not 'root shapes'.

[gennation]

In reality, if you call it a root or tonic, and if you know how to find it by name...string...fret, and certain ways it's applied...you'll be fine and can play with anyone who thinks of it any other way...right or wrong It is only a term in a sonic realm anyways, and anyone who you communicated it to would not stop you on a gig and call you out...they can interchange them on the fly

 

Just speaking from experience playing with naturally talented musicians, schooled musicians, and college professors, etc...on a gig they aren't as picky and can fly by the seat of their pants, follow along, and just plain "play". Terms aren't as big a concern.

[andy thompson]

 

Getting back to your original question, Barret's root shapes in Fretboard Workbook are nothing more than a way to visualize octaves across the fretboard. Don't confuse this with the root of a chord or the tonic of a key. As you work through the book you will start to gain a fuller understanding of these concepts. Choose any note on any string on any fret, and the root shapes will point to other like notes in different octaves. For example, 5th string 3rd fret is C, follow the root shapes and you'll find all the other C's that exist on the fretboard. imho they should be called 'octave shapes', not 'root shapes'.

 

 

Sweet light, thats what I thought, then wondered why are there not 7, or 12 shapes...?

[jonfinn]

In reality, if you call it a root or tonic, and if you know how to find it by name...string...fret, and certain ways it's applied...you'll be fine and can play with anyone who thinks of it any other way...right or wrong It is only a term in a sonic realm anyways, and anyone who you communicated it to would not stop you on a gig and call you out...they can interchange them on the fly Just speaking from experience playing with naturally talented musicians, schooled musicians, and college professors, etc...on a gig they aren't as picky and can fly by the seat of their pants, follow along, and just plain "play". Terms aren't as big a concern.

 

Yup! All that really matters is what the music sounds like. Having common-language terms just makes it easier for musicians to communicate verbally.

[gennation]

Yup! All that really matters is what the music sounds like. Having common-language terms just makes it easier for musicians to communicate verbally.

 

Yes, and I rarely hear anyone out "in the field" use the term "tonic", even though I'm sure there's ton's of us/people I work with who realize the difference. "Root" just seems to be used regardless of context, it must just be easier to say or something

[artiem]

Sweet light, thats what I thought, then wondered why are there not 7, or 12 shapes...?

One key thing when you're learning music theory as a guitar player is to recognize which concepts are guitar-specific, and which are not. I found that this tripped me up a few times. You'll see that most of the concepts are equally applicable to somone learning to play the piano, but the "root shapes" concept is very specific to guitar--and in standard EADGBE tuning at that.