Members papa taco Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 People don't think anymore They let the television do the thinking for them Ye ol' Aaron Brown be thy conscience Sit on the porcelain pot eating chips Ass grows, brain shrinks 1:1 The purist ratio Shotgun a cola up yer arse. papa taco © 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blaghaus Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Chirpy_72 Wow, thanks for the insight your welcome, narky arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuyaGuy Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Chirpy_72 There's little room for the gray area of ambiguity in a blurb. best soundbyte of the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AcousticControl Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by UnkleSlam It's ok. We forgive you. ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jcn37203 Posted September 8, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius I'm going through the same thing. It's weird too, when I go see my parents, I never NEVER bring up politics. But yet they always do. I'm working on just going along with it. "yeah, I hope we kill all of those {censored}ing Iraqis. I'll be glad when Bush gets out so we can get someone who has the balls to do something about immigration" You know...for peace. Last year I really almost went off on some family members. I'm at one table just talking about important stuff like whiskey and craps and then the "grown folks" all are like "bobby!!" from across the room. I look up. "your uncle just said you were a liberal" (My uncle is a conservative but a registered dem who usually votes republican these days. We have many lengthy political discussions and very much respect one another's views. So in that way I wish he hand't have told the {censored}ing cackling ass hens about it) "well...umm..I mean, liberal may be a bit strong..." "I can't believe that, this family has a long history of conservatism" and were basically attacking me. I left it alone and am glad I did sometimes because you don't want to start family {censored}, but at the same time I feel like I let them roll over me. HERE'S THE PROBLEM: I look at this small group of chatty kathies questioning my views. We have 1 ex junkie 1 lady about to retire as a teacher..whose benefits have come from teacher's unions, etc. 2 grown ass people who live (bum) off of their parents land and built a house there after having a trailer there for several years and basically still use their parents as a grocery repository and free daycare service. Sorry....I'm not gonna be lectured by that {censored}ing crowd about Republicanism. Thats one thing I kind of like about my family.I mean, my dad was all about Bush last year, but to him it was more like the Superbowl. Which is annoying, but I just kept telling myself that he isn't even going to vote, so it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by jcn37203 What I want to know is where is this huge database that tracks every vote that every congressman or senator has ever cast? Every single time something comes up, you hear "Oh, so and so says they want this, but in 1999 they voted against it!" WTF? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT!? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! Like the other day I heard someone say Hillary Clinton voted against repairing the levees in NOLA. I find it very hard to believe that it is that cut and dry. "Hiary, should we fix the levees in New Orleans?" "Hell no, {censored} those gumbo drinking assholes, next question." Absolutely. As many times as I tried to explain this to people during the election no one wanted to hear it. People are so {censored}ing stupid it makes my stomach hurt. They don't want to hear it they only want to hear what makes your guy look bad and their guy look good. There's no such thing as a single item ticket. It doesn't work like that. And you always have some asshole that tries to get their {censored} through by putting other important {censored} on there that certain politicians want to vote for even though they may oppose the main bill. Do you want to save the people of New OrleansAnd make it illegal to drive past 8pm.Check yes or no. So you check no'THAT SICKO DOESN'T WANT TO HELP THE PEOPLE OF NEW ORLEANS!!!!'Think about this....remember the Kerry thing with "I voted for this before I voted against it?"That was extremely hurtful to his campaign. So let me ask you...How is it he got to vote on something twice? Becase it didn't pass the first time. And if it didn't pass the first time that must mean the majority (Rep.) rejected it for revision. Then it went back up. And then it passed. Which means the majority (Rep.) accepted it. Which means Republicans voted against it before they voted for it. SAME {censored}ING THING!!I actually tried explaining this to one guy and his response (swear to god) "George Bush didn't vote for it" "Please kill yourself" Remember Zell miller and his {censored}ing big angry troll speech (ZELL MAD!! )And he gave a laundry list of weapons that Kerry voted to dispense with? Look at the records!!! Cheney voted the exact same way!! Because it was an initiative proposed by a Republican!! (George Sr.) {censored}ing people. And now Zell's a hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrSage Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by jcn37203 What I want to know is where is this huge database that tracks every vote that every congressman or senator has ever cast?Every single time something comes up, you hear "Oh, so and so says they want this, but in 1999 they voted against it!" Yeah, people love to spout their side's talking points without doing any actual research for themselves. They fail to mention that the bill that would have repaired the levies also had a rider that would have legalized child prostitution and made attendance at Ashlee Simpson shows compulsory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members palthegiraffe Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius "your uncle just said you were a liberal" That's problem number one: name-calling. Talk radio and others have used this once-noninflammatory word to drill it into peoples' heads that anyone who disagrees with Bush is not someone who disagrees, but an enemy. You don't talk over the issues with your enemies: you defeat them. No middle ground. No compromise. It's hard to remember that "liberal" House Speaker Tip O'Neill and President Reagan had a good working relationship, given how things have become in the current situation. It's all very discouraging. There was a time when I used to happily talk over politics with Republican friends as easily as I did with people I had more in common with politically. Now I don't dare bring up political issues with the same people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jcn37203 Posted September 8, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 That's exactly my point.You can't vote for anything without voting against something else. So on a really important bill 5 years ago, I could see how someone might not get all assed up over a small clause about not reinforcing the levees in New Orleans.But now people are pointing at that like some (seriously weak) blame shift device.You basically have to ignore the voting records as they are presented, because there is *NO* context provided.Originally posted by GuyaGuy tis true.most likely she did but bills in congress are so long and complicated and full of off-topic issues that to vote against one bill means voting against all sorts of things by default.truth is, everyone in congress has voted against environmental policies, against education funding, and against the cuddling of cute little puppies--just because those issues were tacked onto a bill about something completely different.see, for exampl, bush's addendum regarding the orange industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jcn37203 Posted September 8, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius And he gave a laundry list of weapons that Kerry voted to dispense with? Look at the records!!! Cheney voted the exact same way!! Because it was an initiative proposed by a Republican!! (George Sr.) {censored}ing people. And now Zell's a hero. Please tell me where these records are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blaghaus Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 The age of representation is dead. Politicians does not see the public as constituants, but customers. Give your customers a good deal, like low taxes, and they will come back to you. Only, that good deal means your next door neighbour goes without food. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I've never got this 'Less government' {censored}. They are their to save your arse when it goes wrong. I want the government to be a {censored}ing leviathon should get caught in a hurricane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AcousticControl Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by blaghaus The age of representation is dead. dude, it was stillborn. representative democracy isn't either. and you can put that in your {censored}ing sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Twang Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Yeah, most legislation these days is so loaded with pork that you can't really vote for one thing without either voting for or against something else entirely unrelated. The line item veto would be handy, but that's not going to happen. Pork barrel legislation is the way politicis is done in America, unfortunately. "What's that, the President wants another $50 billion to pay for New Orleans? Well if he wants me to vote it through, we're going to have to add in a few bucks to pay for the three new bridges my state needs" etc. It's {censored}ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Twang Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by blaghaus Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I've never got this 'Less government' {censored}. They are their to save your arse when it goes wrong. I want the government to be a {censored}ing leviathon should get caught in a hurricane. Fair enough, but the majority of Americans don't share this philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by jcn37203 Please tell me where these records are available. Wal-Mart. They have everything. Here's one spot with lots of info like that. http://www.citizen.org/congress/voting/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blaghaus Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by delorean dude, it was stillborn.representative democracy isn't either. and you can put that in your {censored}ing sig. Don't forget, I come from the nation that developed the welfare state after the war. Now, thats representation. As for democracy, I dont think thats EVER been successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blaghaus Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Twang Fair enough, but the majority of Americans don't share this philosophy. I know, I just dont understand it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jcn37203 Posted September 8, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 I'm not sure where I stand on the "less government" thing. I can't seem to get a clear explanation of all the implications. It's like you either have to be born a {censored}ing political genius, or just pick a line and hold on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrSage Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 And I have to say that I respect the Republicans for their ability to whittle big, complex issues down to easy-to-remember talking points. I really disagree with a lot of their policies, but they're damn good at playing the game. If I never hear the term "flip-flopper" again, it will be too soon. What? Kerry considers the implications of complex bills before choosing to vote one way or the other? Flip-flopper!!! Wouldn't you rather elect someone a lot more predictable? Like someone who will make decisions based on his own personal morality rather than the opinions of the people he works for? The Republicans are masters of spin, and when the Democrats try to counter with facts and rebuttals, the Republicans respond with simple talking points. They use their folksy charm to make people wonder why the Democrats are making things so complicated, when it's really a simple matter: do you like to kill babies or not? No? I thought not. Vote Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Twang Yeah, most legislation these days is so loaded with pork that you can't really vote for one thing without either voting for or against something else entirely unrelated. The line item veto would be handy, but that's not going to happen. Pork barrel legislation is the way politicis is done in America, unfortunately."What's that, the President wants another $50 billion to pay for New Orleans? Well if he wants me to vote it through, we're going to have to add in a few bucks to pay for the three new bridges my state needs" etc. It's {censored}ed. +100 That's the problem..it won't end because just about everyone there is guilty of it. Why shouldn't they be? I mean I suppose it is their job to protect the interests of their constituency, but IMO a lot of times those compromises hurt the country as a whole. But it's almost like deception. A dem starts a bill and uses some form of pork to get the republicans to vote for it, A republican authors a bill and does the same thing to get a super majority if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thelonius Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by jcn37203 I'm not sure where I stand on the "less government" thing.I can't seem to get a clear explanation of all the implications.It's like you either have to be born a {censored}ing political genius, or just pick a line and hold on. Well George Bush sure as hell doesn't have a hold on it. I hear that from Republicans all the time. That's why I'm like "if you want less government, then why are you letting him get away with this bull{censored}?!" You cannot claim to want less government and support the patriot act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blaghaus Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius +100That's the problem..it won't end because just about everyone there is guilty of it. Why shouldn't they be? I mean I suppose it is their job to protect the interests of their constituency, but IMO a lot of times those compromises hurt the country as a whole. But it's almost like deception. A dem starts a bill and uses some form of pork to get the republicans to vote for it, A republican authors a bill and does the same thing to get a super majority if necessary. Thats onereason why I'm a great believer in concensus coalition politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr. Twang Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by MrSage The Republicans are masters of spin Well Bill Clinton wasn't exactly a slouch in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blaghaus Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Thelonius Well George Bush sure as hell doesn't have a hold on it. I hear that from Republicans all the time. That's why I'm like "if you want less government, then why are you letting him get away with this bull{censored}?!"You cannot claim to want less government and support the patriot act. good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrSage Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Twang Well Bill Clinton wasn't exactly a slouch in this area. He worked hard at it, and he's been very critical of the Democratic strategies since the Republicans took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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