Members Tusks Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Bill et al, Been looking at upgrading from the oldJV/XP units and wondering if the Fantom or XV units offer any significant upgrade in the following issue areas: 1) Is there any filter smoothing? Will filters still step when swept under high resonance? 2) Will ring modulator still be grainy when sweeping pitch/volume of ring modulated waveforms manually? 3) Will the booster still create aliasing artifacts at about C4 or higher? And will the ring modulator start to alias about C5 or higher (depending on harmonic content and gain settings of course)? I realize the roms are very nice these days. If I was purely a rom user, it would not be much of a decision. However I find myself using the synth engine more and more ... wondering in what ways the sound quality of the synth engine has been improved. Should I be waiting for the child of Fantom? Thanks in advance, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyWa Posted July 1, 2006 Members Share Posted July 1, 2006 Originally posted by Tusks ...Should I be waiting for the child of Fantom? ... Does the Juno G fit this description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted July 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 2, 2006 I too wonder what role the Juno G plays. I thought it was to the Fantoms as the XP30 was to the JV/XPs. Same synth architecture. Value package. More sounds. Which would suggest that a new synth family is around the corner. Not sure tho. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted July 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 2, 2006 I wondered lonely as a cloud .... bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 3, 2006 Members Share Posted July 3, 2006 hey Jerry- I don't have my Fantom here, nor all the info you're looking for, but here's what I've got... I think that the filter on the Fantom S sweeps about the same as on my XP-60. In other words, at high resonances the filter will grab onto one harmonic after another just as it should, but if you listen to it closely, the harmonic changes aren't as smooth as on an analog filter. But it's pretty subtle, and only noticable to me if I'm listening to something like a naked sawtooth wave through headphones. If you're thinking of the older JV-80/880, they were horrible steppers and every Roland I've had since my JV-80 has been greatly improved. In my XP days, I was using Structure 3 with boost to get just about all my analog-type sounds. But now on the Fantom S I've gone back to just Structures 1 and 2. The reason is the inclusion of the COSM tube amp simulator, which gives me greater control, and it's closer to what I am looking for when it comes to adding warmth or grit. It has it's own aliasing problems out there at the extremes, but they aren't as bad as Structure 3. So I don't know if the Fantom is any better. The same with ring mod... I haven't bothered to transfer any of my old patches over to the Fantom, since I've kept my XP-60. If this is important to you I'll check the Fantom out when it's home later this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted July 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 3, 2006 Bill, I figure you would come through. Thanks for your observations. They are helpful by themselves. Please see my comments below. Originally posted by mrcpro I think that the filter on the Fantom S sweeps about the same as on my XP-60. In other words, at high resonances the filter will grab onto one harmonic after another just as it should, but if you listen to it closely, the harmonic changes aren't as smooth as on an analog filter. But it's pretty subtle, and only noticable to me if I'm listening to something like a naked sawtooth wave through headphones. If you're thinking of the older JV-80/880, they were horrible steppers and every Roland I've had since my JV-80 has been greatly improved. Thank you. I can relate to your comparison with an analog filter. Under envelope control, I am pretty happy with the resolution of the XP/JV synths. Under midi controller control (pedal, slider, etc.) they exhibit the same degree of steppping that any unsmoothed midi (128 steps) device would I guess. To my ears at least. So I am talking primarily about that kind of control. You know, where you open the filter with the mod stick for a wah on a resonant BPF for a wah. Or you use LPF and HPF in series to get something similar but different. Originally posted by mrcpro In my XP days, I was using Structure 3 with boost to get just about all my analog-type sounds. But now on the Fantom S I've gone back to just Structures 1 and 2. The reason is the inclusion of the COSM tube amp simulator, which gives me greater control, and it's closer to what I am looking for when it comes to adding warmth or grit. It has it's own aliasing problems out there at the extremes, but they aren't as bad as Structure 3. So I don't know if the Fantom is any better. That's pretty much what I have been using it for. Also for some keyboard sounds (Remember the XP60's A56 Deep purple sound, or even C118 Tortured) where each note is separately waveshaped/distorted. On the ring mod, it's primarily for plucked/struck sounds, where I would like some timbral control with the pedals and controllers. It's nice that the cosm acts more musically. It sounds like you are referring to it's response when you change the harmonic content and gain levels that are coming into it. That's partly what I have been wanting to do with the structures. I heard somewhere that the V-synth's similar structures were more responsive/musical. I hate to trouble you. But if you did a couple of tests on the Fantom, you would help me with my decision. I find that I invent these tricks on the Nord Modular, but I don't want to gig with it. The XP comes close and is a workhorse, but it has it's failings in the controller resolution area. I am wondering if that has improved. Thanks again, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 3, 2006 Members Share Posted July 3, 2006 OK I'll check things out, but it may be awhile. My life just got a lot busier... family stuff. I should note that the LPF's resonance set to 127 still emits a loud sine wave that sounds nothing at all like a self-oscillating analog filter. I'll check for stepping when swept via MIDI, but I'll bet it's still there. The only thing I was using ring-mod for was to get pseudo sync-sweep sounds. If there's a JV/XP preset that does what you are looking for, name it and I can do a mock-up on the Fantom. As to your original question... should you buy a Fantom now... you know, I bought my Fantom S a couple of years ago when they were discontinuing them and got a great deal on it. I think we are currently towards the end of this line, and I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a new one right now. Not until Roland lowers the price anyway. Of course, you may be able to score a good deal used, but in the meantime Roland has released the V-Synth. Last week someone reported that they've been selling for as low as $800 on E-Bay. That's just incredible for a synth of it's power, and it certainly is set up for the kinds of advanced experimental sounds you like to do better than a Fantom, which is still basically a rompler with a few tricks up it's sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted July 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2006 Bill, please take your time. I have a family too. Thanks for doing it. I don't have a copy of the kinds of sounds I'm doing in the presets, but basically they tend to be plucked/struck sounds. Here's an example ... for a FM sounding telecaster type sound, I have B17 Digichime in tone 1, ring modulated with the B23 MMM vox in tone 2. I combine them in structure 8 so that the digi chime is primarily adding a little color to the attack. The envelopes reflect this. I send digichime through a rapidly swept peaking filter with some resonance to pull out the harmonics. MMM vox get a more subtle treatment of LPF or BPF. Depending on the application. I might the run the sound through the compressor, to get the telecaster type pinched sound. Or chorus it to let it ring. It is clearly a synthetic sound but plays like a plucked string instrument. Digichime may be tuned 1, 1.5 or 2 octaves above the MMM vox. Replacing the MMM vox with a narrow pulse (B44) and putting a subtle rapid pitch envelope on tone 2, gives me a more rubber band twang like an electric/acoustic hybrid. I have some detuning, resonance and cutoff articulations on a pedal and on the pinch bender to control how much bite the sound has. I dunno if this helps describe what I am doing. I once programmed a sync sound using extreme resonance through a peaking filter to sweep the booster. It always aliased in the upper register, but was pretty good for low drones and stuff. Come to think of it, I'll go muck about with it now. Cheers, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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