Polyphony

[Avram]

Hello again!

 

I have a small question about Polyphony.

On some of the user reviews in this web, I read sentences like :

"Polyphony haven't run out yet", or "I didn't keep it (it=a synth) long enough to max out the polyphony".

 

Well, can the polyphony just run out?

I really couldn't understand that..

 

and when it runs out, there's less types pf sounds and tones on the synth?

Is it like that in every synth?

Don't you think it's quiet lame?

 

To sum it up (although not entirely, you should read the other questions also, so you could answer more efficiently):

 

What do you mean when you say: "Polyphony runs out"?

 

Well, actually it's not a good question...

But you know what I mean...

[packrat]

You really are an irritating little troll, aren't you. Why don't you just go home and read the manual? Or the webpages that at least half a dozen people have already pointed you at?

 

GO AWAY Egens.

 

B>

[Avram]

 

Originally posted by packrat You really are an irritating little troll, aren't you. Why don't you just go home and read the manual? Or the webpages that at least half a dozen people have already pointed you at? GO AWAY Egens. B>

 

 

You see, the manual "thinks", that you know these sort of things.

It'll be quiet hard to find a simple explanation for what I want, becuase I guess it's quiet simple, and the manual won't bother to explain this to a dude who buys a synth.

 

You see, this forum is for ASKING QUESTIONS.

Every question has an answer, which can be found on manual on the internet.

But from some reason, people here (including me), ask these

questions!

Why, you ask?

Well, becuase asking this in the forum and getting the answer from people who understand, is way more easy!

This type of discussion forums, was made for making our lifes easier!

 

And man, I really can't find a good reason for you to keep talking to me... I mean, it's quiet clear you don't like me very much, so just ignore my threads, (Again, I'm not gonna open another account becuase youll recognize me each time I will... And If I will succed (although I'm not gonna try), you won't know it's me.)

Just leave me alone mate... I apologized about my behavior before, and As you can see, I'm better now. I'm not gonna do what I did before, so why won't we just ignore each other?

 

Now. Can anyone possibly answer my question? I would be quiet greatfull if you will.

[packrat]

 

Originally posted by Avram You see, this forum is for ASKING QUESTIONS. Every question has an answer, which can be found on manual on the internet. But from some reason, people here (including me), ask these questions! Why, you ask? Well, becuase asking this in the forum and getting the answer from people who understand, is way more easy! This type of discussion forums, was made for making our lifes easier!

 

 

So you're basically a lazy little {censored} who thinks that our time is worth far less than yours. Ergo, we should explain things to you, so you don't have to bother reading the manual or looking things up yourself.

 

Yay for you.

 

B>

[Yoozer]

 

Originally posted by Avram Well, can the polyphony just run out? I really couldn't understand that..

 

To help you out: Think of 1 single "voice" (this is a vague definition, more on this later) as a musician who can only play a single note on a single instrument.

 

To explain the "vague" part; synthesizers treat voices differently. On your Triton LE you have 2 oscillators. If you use them both at the same time, you're working in "dual mode" so to say. Your polyphony is now reduced to 32 notes, because every time you play a single note you need 2 of those musicians.

 

If you play a chord, you need 3 notes - 3 x 2 = 6. Your polyphony is now 32-6=26 notes.

 

If you have several of these together in a song, you could run out because all your musicians are occupied.

 

Now, as I said, the Triton Le has 2 oscillators. The Nord Lead 2 also has 2 oscillators. It's got a polyphony of 16 voices. However, those 16 voices do not care whether you 1 or 2 oscillators. Playing a single note only takes away a single voice.

 

Generally speaking, a sample-based synthesizer with a polyphony of X notes means that every sample/oscillator you use takes up 1 note. A virtual analog with a polyphony of X notes does not care if you use 1 or 3 oscillators; it still sees it as 1 voice.

 

To elaborate on the "running out"; the Roland XP-30 I have (and any JV/XP/XV based synth) can use up to 4 oscillators at the same time. If I dial up a preset that uses these 4 oscillators and I play a single note, I have 64 - 4 = 60 notes of polyphony left. Effectively speaking, the polyphony is reduced to 64 / 4 = 16 voices total.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Packrat: the reason that you can't (or better: won't) find this in a manual is that Korg, Yamaha et. al like to throw big numbers at you but want to hide the fact that having 4 layers eats through it like battery acid through a tissue.

[packrat]

Do you plan to continue spoonfeeding him?

 

B>

[Diametro]

Egens = Packrat = Avram.

 

If one would shut up ... perhaps they all would.

 

I feel like I'm trapped in a bad dream I'm never going to wake up from.

 

How did synths get so stupid and ugly?

 

Goodnight.

[BillyWa]

My Polyphony ran out on me once.

 

 

So I shot her and took up with Kimberly.

 

 

 

 

Ok, not that funny.

 

When the "polyphony runs out," it simply means that not all the notes or sounds that your are trying to play will sound. I think some keyboards react differently but the options are that this will either silence the oldest notes (most likely in the order they were played) or not play the newer notes at all.

 

The reviews you read mean that those playing the synths did not play more notes or sounds than the synth could handle at one time. This number varies considerably for different brands and models.

[Analog Kid]

Don't listen to the critics Avram! It's obvious that you're not going to let ANYTHING get in the way of you mastering you're synth! certainly not the manual.

 

If i remember right, i think they loaded the Triton LE up with about enough notes for 2 or 3 years of average playing. If you play more notes, or play at a higher tempo this may shorten. A lot of Korg fans complained about this, cause after all, the Triton Extreme had enough polyphony from the factory to last 5 years before you'd have to buy the new model! That's more than twice the productive lifespan of the budget model!

 

However, and most "preset" users dont know this, if you look in that crazy book they sold you with the synth (the manual) there's an often overlooked tidbit in the midi implementation charts where you can actually download more polyphony into the flash ram through a sysex dump (sysex is system exclusive which means it's exclusive to the system)

 

You'd be surprised at the number of synth owners that buy a new keyboard long before all the notes of the old one have been played.

[BillyWa]

Help! I am gaging on a poptart! ROTFL!

[Allerian]

Personally, I kinda dig the "note stealing" effect sometimes.

 

And yeah, once your polyphony runs out, you're gonna need a new Triton, so use it sparingly.

[mildbill]

Originally posted by Analog Kid.................. You'd be surprised at the number of synth owners that buy a new keyboard long before all the notes of the old one have been played.

 

 

 

ya - how many notes does one guy need anyways? i mean, like, there's only 12 pitches, right? (not counting microtonality, of course).

so, what's the sense of just collecting all those notes?

nobody needs more than 12 notes.

 

and another thing. how many fingers do you have?

 

12?

 

no!

 

i bet you don't have more than 10 and nobody plays with their toes.

so how come people think they need more than 10 keys?

 

if you think you need more than 10 keys or 12 notes you must just be some kind of a collector.

[BillyWa]

 

Originally posted by Allerian Personally, I kinda dig the "note stealing" effect sometimes.

 

I believe that is merely 'infringement' you are speaking of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My keytar polyphony goes to eleven!

[Dejavoodoo]

Two comments on this:

 

1. Korg is not known for writing user-friendly, clear, easy to understand manuals. Alesis and Mackie do a real good job at this (though the wit in the Mackie manuals sometimes gets in the way). So I can understand if someone has trouble understanding one of Korg's manuals.

 

That said, one should start with the manual when searching for answers. If it isn't clear, go to the company website and check the FAQs. It could be a new edition of the manual is available in PDF form. Still no luck? THEN go to user groups and forums.

 

You remember the answer better when you look it up for yourself.

 

2. I have experienced MIDI hang with a couple of my LEs Combi organ patches. Small wonder that a gliss sometimes ended in the Longest Note! Combis are 2 or more programs, which really cuts down on the available polyphony if all the programs in the combis are using 2 oscillators. HomeInMyShoes explains this point very well.

 

My solution was to get a clonewheel. I think many of them have unlimited polyphony (all notes down, all notes sound) - the CX3 certainly does, which makes smears and glissandos worry-free.

[Avram]

I understand most of this, though I wondered:

 

If I, for example, plays a combi which contains 8 programs, it means I have 16 polyphony.

Well, Your'e tellin me that that's it? Now I have 16 polyphony?

(I don't think this makes sense...)... I mean, if I do that, and then I play this combi, and then switch to another combi which has programs, for example, ill have 64 polyphony.

So when I play a combi with 8 sounds, it won't lower to polyphony to 16, for good... is it?! (I damn hope it's not.. cause I did already played combies with lots of programs... are you telling me now I have much less polyphony?).

 

From what I understood from you, it takes a few years to run the polyphony out. If what I said above is correct, it can take 23 seconds....So I guess it's not correct.

 

Anyway, this thing is really lame! when I run out of polyphony is there anyway to restore the polyphony instead of buying a new synth?

And someone here said it can be downloaded... Are you serious?

'cause it sounds like youre one of the only people who knows this... Besides, I checked the chart, and couldn't understand what you meant by downloading... I can't see an internet link for polyphony download....What am I suppose to do excactly for sending polyphony to the Triton?

Oh, and how can I know how much polyphony I have right now? (or How much ran out).

 

BTW: Packrat, with all the respect, there's no way I could get such a complicated explanation, which took me like 15 minutes to understand, in the manual....

[Dejavoodoo]

"And yeah, once your polyphony runs out, you're gonna need a new Triton, so use it sparingly."

 

I always stop by the polyphony station and fill up right before a gig. Premium unleaded polyphony sounds the best, but it's over $3.50 a gallon, so I had to cut back to regular unleaded. Sounds like crap, but the band understands.

 

Karmas, I understand, have a higher MPGP (miles per gallon of polyphony) rating because they are hybrid systems.

 

And always carry a set of MIDI cables in case you need a jump.

[Avram]

Hmm.. I have a strange feeling you guys are playing with me..

Polyphonic filling station!?

What the {censored}?

 

Could you answer my questions in my last comment?

[Twilight Drone]

You can really run out of polyphony. In this case you won't be able to play any more notes at the same time. But, on earth, don't buy a new Triton then (buy OASYS ;-). Just release one or more keys to free some more polyphony for other notes.

[ChipCurtis]

Originally posted by Avram I understand most of this, though I wondered: If I, for example, plays a combi which contains 8 programs, it means I have 16 polyphony. Well, Your'e tellin me that that's it? Now I have 16 polyphony? (I don't think this makes sense...)... I mean, if I do that, and then I play this combi, and then switch to another combi which has programs, for example, ill have 64 polyphony. So when I play a combi with 8 sounds, it won't lower to polyphony to 16, for good... is it?! (I damn hope it's not.. cause I did already played combies with lots of programs... are you telling me now I have much less polyphony?). From what I understood from you, it takes a few years to run the polyphony out. If what I said above is correct, it can take 23 seconds....So I guess it's not correct. Anyway, this thing is really lame! when I run out of polyphony is there anyway to restore the polyphony instead of buying a new synth? And someone here said it can be downloaded... Are you serious? 'cause it sounds like youre one of the only people who knows this... Besides, I checked the chart, and couldn't understand what you meant by downloading... I can't see an internet link for polyphony download....What am I suppose to do excactly for sending polyphony to the Triton? Oh, and how can I know how much polyphony I have right now? (or How much ran out).

 

Avram, WTF??? :confused: :rolleyes:

 

Either you are truly confused now, or you really are trolling... if the latter is true, I'll have no mercy for you (the way you're getting treated by packrat).

 

Look... forget about polyphony, combi mode and all that crap. Just use the synth in regular program mode (the patches sound better that way) and multitrack in your DAW. Problem sovled. Have fun.

[Yoozer]

 

Originally posted by Avram I understand most of this, though I wondered: If I, for example, plays a combi which contains 8 programs, it means I have 16 polyphony.

 

1 combi = 8 programs. Programs, as I said, can use 1 or 2 oscillators at a time. Also, not all programs play at the same time (I imagine they kept this in mind).

 

 

it won't lower to polyphony to 16, for good... is it?!

 

Bloody hell.

 

 

From what I understood from you, it takes a few years to run the polyphony out. If what I said above is correct, it can take 23 seconds....So I guess it's not correct.

 

It's sarcasm.

 

 

Anyway, this thing is really lame! when I run out of polyphony is there anyway to restore the polyphony instead of buying a new synth?

 

Yes. Record what you play as audio.

 

 

Oh, and how can I know how much polyphony I have right now? (or How much ran out).

 

If you're not playing anything you're not running out. You notice that you're running out if you play a chord and then another chord - and suddenly the notes of the first chord stop once you play the other chord.

 

To use a better explanation:

You are washing a special object. The special part is that all the water you use to wash you collect again at the end. Nothing evaporates or spills.

 

You have a big reservoir of 64 liters. For some objects, you need 1 bucket. If you want to wash 3 of those objects at the same time, you need 3 buckets. The reservoir is now at 64 - 3 = 61 liters.

 

For other objects, you need a bigger bucket; twice as big. Every time you fill it you remove 2 liters from the reservoir.

 

However, as I said, once you've washed all those objects the water is poured back into the reservoir again. The only issue is is that you can't use water that's already being used to wash.

 

I don't know how to explain it in more basic terms. If you do not understand this, then simply stop worrying about it.

[Dejavoodoo]

What Yoozer said.

[Khazul]

You need to take good care of polyphony - very hard to replace. Be esepecially careful when moving your keyboard around - they may fall out the holes in the back.

 

If you pick up your board and shake it around - sometimes you may here them rattling around inside - best tapes up all the holes when that happens...

[packrat]

 

Originally posted by Avram BTW: Packrat, with all the respect, there's no way I could get such a complicated explanation, which took me like 15 minutes to understand, in the manual....

 

That is certainly true.

 

B>

[Oscius]

wow lots of sarcasm in this topic

 

 

 

 

 

 

so I answer the question very simply::

 

Polyphony means HOW MANY NOTES YOU CAN PLAY AT ONCE!

 

so if your polyphony is 64 you can play 64 notes at once (At same time)

 

If you use dual notes so that 2 sounds play when you play 1 key ofcourse then you can play only 36 notes at once.

 

so IF you want to run out of polyphony do like this go to combimode and press every key on your LE at the same time, some notes won't play(becouse in dual mode you have polyphony of 32 meaning you can only play 32 notes at once)

You have just ran out of polyphony.

 

Running out of polyphony dose no harm to your keyboard polyphony is allways used and restored as you Play and release the note.

 

Sustain effect keeps the note draning your polyphony as the note plays even when you relase your hands off of the note meaning you will run out off polyphony more easily if you use sustain effect.

[mildbill]

Originally posted by Avram..................................................... Oh, and how can I know how much polyphony I have right now? (or How much ran out).

................QUOTE]

 

 

 

the only way i know is to look at the polyphony meter on your keyboard.