Members skier4467 Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 I've heard some people mention that it takes some time to switch between patches on the fusion. Would this be a problem live? For instance switching from a piano sound to a B3 sound? Is it milliseconds or seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gunslinger69 Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 Originally posted by skier4467 I've heard some people mention that it takes some time to switch between patches on the fusion. Would this be a problem live? For instance switching from a piano sound to a B3 sound? Is it milliseconds or seconds? It kind of depends on the sample. Anything involving the Holy Grail Grand Piano is going to load slowly (seems like forever but probably I don't really find the HG paino useful anyway, so I don't really have load problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prodigul Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 the only ones that take a long time are some of the strings and some of the hollow sun ones. It hasnt been detrimental to playing for me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 this gets asked so often it should be a sticky. if you're using the sounds that are in ROM, there's no delay - push a button and the sound is there. if you need to load samples into RAM, the amount of time it takes depends on how large the sample is.but it compares well to any other computer softsampler i've used.in other words, it's pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Veneficum Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 hey mildbill, I have always thought that the ROM is also editable FLASH ROM meaning you can change the waves in there. Is this true? I mean, could you possibly load some Hollow Sun waves into the ROM (upgraded to 192 MB)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 pretty sure you can overwrite the stock sound banks (i've never done it), but i guess the point is that once the sounds are in rom, they don't have to be loaded from the hard drive. when you turn the board off, the sounds that are held in ram are gone (but the pointers are there), and the sounds in rom are still there. in other words, you can still see names in the ram banks, but when you call up those names, they need to be loaded into ram. i think i've got that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XorAxAx Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 OK, folks. Here is the skinny. The thing that determines load time is the amount of sample data that must be loaded into RAM, and the source from where it is loaded. That's it. For VA/FM/PM patches, load time is virtually zero. If your samples are located on the onboard Flash ROM, they load very fast. If your samples are located on the hard drive, they load more slowly. The speed of the hard drive itself is the driving factor here. The original 40GB drive at 5400RPM is the slowest. Current units ship with 80GB 7200RPM drives, which are reported to be noticeably faster. My 80GB unit loads smaller samples almost instantaneously. Huge samples can take a couple of seconds. Here's the important part. Once a sample is loaded into RAM, it is retained in RAM until that space is needed for something else. So the last few patches are always available in RAM for an instant load. Example: You load Big Frickin Organ, then switch to Death Metal Harpsichord. Now you can switch back to Big Frickin Organ* instantly. There is a memory upgrade for the Fusion which ups the RAM from 64MB to 192MB. This lets the Fusion keep more samples retained in memory. So instead of having only the last 3-4 patches available for instant recall, you have the last 8-10. People report that programs load faster with the upgrade, but I believe it works as I describe here, and they are misidentifying the effect. * Anybody mind if I invent the acronym BFO = Big Frickin Organ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XorAxAx Posted September 25, 2006 Members Share Posted September 25, 2006 Originally posted by Gunslinger69 I don't really find the HG paino useful anyway, so I don't really have load problems. The stock HG piano suffers from obvious velocity layer change between mf and ff. The Fusion does not have a crossfade feature (yet) (but read on). They guy behind the third-parth KPR patch set has actually created about 10 improved HG patches using the factory HG samples. They are free, but you have to contact KPR to get them. I haven't had a chance to try them yet, but they are supposed to be pretty good. Another guy has found a way to implement crossfade on his Fusion using modulation tables to set explicitly the levels of sample oscillators in response to velocity. Both of these things can be found on the Fusion Forum: http://www.promusicproducts.com/forum/phpBB2/index.php BTW, crossfade -- and even more important -- a second filter are my top feature requests for the Fusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 ya, Xor - that's basically what I was trying to say. maybe i didn't make it too clear. on mine, the holy grail piano is in the stock banks, so if i switch to another sound and then switch back, it loads lickety split. if i load a large sample from another bank where it has to come off the hard drive, it can take a few seconds. there's one drumkit type thing that takes the longest to load from the samples available at the fusion site, but even that one isn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XorAxAx Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Yup. We're saying the same thing. If you need a set of programs to load really quick in the middle of a song, you want to load them all into RAM before the song or perhaps during a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sizzlemeister Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 I have the KPR piano presets and they are nice, however I happen to like the stock HG piano after merely tweaking the global velocity settings to my tastes. I suppose it's no big surprise, but I very much prefer the HG piano on the Fusion over the stock pianos on the competitor's workstations. For performance, if you're going to use a lot of sounds, there are ways to maximize load times. The first thing you would do is go into the global system menu and select "maximize system for load times". Secondly, you can set up a performance list in a single bank so you can cycle back and forth in that bank between the sounds you need - all of those programs will stay in memory and load instantly (in the event the programs are programs that use samples). You can also set up a mix and simply solo parts as needed during the song. This way you also get access to an additional three insert effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 well, maybe i have it all wrong. the first 5 banks or so - are those rom or flash ram? are there any rom sounds at all?>ones that can't be overwritten? i haven't screwed around too much with my fusion yet. just mostly pick a sound and see where the programming options get me.i have noticed a somewhat annoying 'sample missing' message popping up. i need to do some housecleaning with it i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keyman-sam Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 When i tried out the fusion, this was the first thing i noticed. Here's my take on that : The patches with VA/modelling dont take time to load. Its the rompler/sampler patches that take time to load. However, what i'd like is that, i would be able to scroll smoothly, and then when i select a specific patch (lets say, give it 300 ms), it starts loading the patch. Still, i found it very annoying. I'd like for it to load samples into RAM then have no loading during actual usage of the synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NuSkoolTone Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Originally posted by keyman-sam what i'd like is that, i would be able to scroll smoothly, and then when i select a specific patch (lets say, give it 300 ms), it starts loading the patch. Still, i found it very annoying. I'd like for it to load samples into RAM then have no loading during actual usage of the synth. THat's a double edge sword for sure. If you're just scrolling through, makes sense. If you're changing patches live, I'm sure you wouldn't want ANY hesitiation! Perhaps that scenario could be solved with an optional confim dialog, or as you said a load delay that you could preset the amount? Say "Instant" (ASAP) to 1sec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 "How long is the delay switching patches on a FUSION? " let's put this in perspective. have you ever used a just slightly older piece of gear that uses SCSI to load in samples? some of those boards can take 10 or 15 minutes (not seconds or milliseconds) to load in a large sample, and people have used them live for a long time. like i said, compared to earlier gear, the fusion loads samples like greased lightning - as fast as a computer.i'm not too up on all the technical details of memory types and what-not, but of the gear i have, the fusion can load samples'by far' the fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3p0 Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Well, I would'nt say the Fusion is the fastest samples-loader...What's your gear, mate?! (Probably some very old gear..). I can tell that the Fusion's competitors load samples faster. Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom. All of them are faster. Well, mates. You shouldn't get so angry when people start saying something bad about your dear Fusion....I personally, didn't like it. It's my right, you know, and it doesn't make me an asshole that knows nothing about synthesziersworkstations. Yes, I know I might be different , but I'm proud to say, that I didn't like the Fusion very much.It is a great board, don't get me wrong, with lots of features that it's competitors don't have, but I found it boaring, frustrating, etc'... (It could be the look of it, could be the user interface, which I didn't like. (Please notice the "I") , could be something else, but I didn't like it. Then again, that is MY opinion. MY OPINION. M-Y. Dear Thread opener. I don't think the Fusion's samples-loading is a big issue. Well, it once actually made me walk away from it, frustrated, but it's not a big deal. Just load the samples, wait a little, and youre set.). Check it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 If its a synth patch - then its instant. If it requires loading of samples, then can take a few seconds at worst - still faster at loading samples and sorting itself out than a V-Synth can be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XorAxAx Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Originally posted by 3p0 I can tell that the Fusion's competitors load samples faster. Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom. All of them are faster. I'm guessing that is from CompactFlash or similar? I don't recall any of them having hard drives. The Fusion does have a hard drive, which means you get all the tradeoffs of a hard drive. A hard drive is slower than most RAM and ROM types, but has much higher capacity per dollar. Originally posted by 3p0 IWell, mates. You shouldn't get so angry when people start saying something bad about your dear Fusion....I personally, didn't like it. It's my right, you know, and it doesn't make me an asshole that knows nothing about synthesziersworkstations. I don't see any such anger or name-calling expressed in this thread. No need to be so defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3p0 Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Sorry, I think I got confused with another Fusion Thread, where a dude got angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keyman-sam Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 But in a motif/fantom S, you can pre-load ALL the samples to ram. Then, there's 0 load time for ALL patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Originally posted by 3p0.......................................................I can tell that the Fusion's competitors load samples faster. Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom. All of them are faster..................... how can you tell?have you hooked up hard drives to them? or cd-roms? I don't know about korg/roland, but i know there have been a lot of complaints on some yamaha forums about slow load times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Originally posted by 3p0 ............................................ What's your gear, mate?! (Probably some very old gear..). ................ i get the feeling that some of it may be older than you are. all still great stuff tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted September 26, 2006 Members Share Posted September 26, 2006 Originally posted by mildbill have you ever used a just slightly older piece of gear that uses SCSI to load in samples? some of my multis even on the S5000 take a couple minutes to load. i don't mind. in fact, i'm sure the FusION would be a speed demon to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members XorAxAx Posted September 27, 2006 Members Share Posted September 27, 2006 Originally posted by keyman-sam But in a motif/fantom S, you can pre-load ALL the samples to ram. Then, there's 0 load time for ALL patches. Read my long post up the thread. The Fusion does that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted September 27, 2006 Members Share Posted September 27, 2006 hey Xor - maybe you can get me straightened out here. the fusion site says that it comes with 120 megs of waveforms in rom: http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=19 but are those really in ROM? i mean i'm used to thinking of rom, like as used in the big 3 boards - you can't overwrite it and it doesn't need to be loaded on startup. my fusion looks like it's doing 'something' on startup, but i didn't think it was loading patches. what do you think would happen if you took the hard drive out? would it still have sounds in rom like yamakorland? when i pick a waveform out when programming a standard rompler type sound, it says the waveforms are in rom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.