what 'key' is the guitar in?

[jimmyc84]

in that a clarinet is a Bb instrument, a sax is an Eb instrument etc, what is a guitar tuned EADGBe?

 

i ask because, browsing jazz fake books they come in Eb editions, C editions etc... which to buy for the guitar?

[justing]

Buy the C

[CapnMarvel]

The guitar is in C. You play a C, it's a C.

Most trumpets, for instance, are in B flat. You play a C, in open position with no valves depressed, you're actually playing a B flat.

God only knows why this is, but it's the same for a lot of wind instruments, like saxes and such. The weirdest thing of all is you CAN get a C trumpet.

[fernmeister]

Guitar is in C, transposed an octave. Get the C book.

[SpectralJulian]

How is guitar in the key of C? Guitars are not tuned with any scale in mind as far as I know. I'd call them chromatic.

[jimmyc84]

cheers guys!

[imissthewar]

Originally posted by SpectralJulian How is guitar in the key of C? Guitars are not tuned with any scale in mind as far as I know. I'd call them chromatic.

 

 

Because C is C. In a Bb instrument, C is Bb. The person is playing a C, the notation is a C, but the actual sound is a Bb.

[fernmeister]

Originally posted by CapnMarvel The guitar is in C. You play a C, it's a C. Most trumpets, for instance, are in B flat. You play a C, in open position with no valves depressed, you're actually playing a B flat. God only knows why this is, but it's the same for a lot of wind instruments, like saxes and such. The weirdest thing of all is you CAN get a C trumpet.

 

 

Originally horns were made on the basis of a fixed harmonic scale, so they could only in one (or a small range) of keys. So to play in several keys you needed several horns made for each key.

 

As the technology developed, horns could play more notes and change keys. However, it was found that some designs sounded sweeter when built to the pattern of certain keys. You can get a C trumpet, but it doesn't sound like a regular trumpet, it is harsher.

 

The reason transposition was kept was to make it easier to read music. So the easiest fingering pattern stayed on C for almost all horns.

[SpectralJulian]

So, why don't they just write it as a B-flat? That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

When playing a D harmonica, do you play D when you read C on sheet music?

If so, the creators of music theory need to be shot. Although not really, because composers such as Cage, Partsch, and Branca pretty much stuck it pretty hard to those major scale biatches.

Edit: Fern, that makes a bit more sense. Still irritates me though.

[Cougar Hunter]

I understand the horn thing (even though it's retarded), but since the guitar is chromatic, it isn't really in a key.

[Moltisanti]

i totally don't get any of that, i am completely retarded when it comes to musical theory...

why is C the standard key for something to be in ? why not A, which comes first alphabetically ???




from that comment you see what i mean about being retarded...but i'm serious i don't get it

[Midrange]

I hate that {censored}. I have to explain it everytime I jam with my girlfriend wo plays sax.
Just find out whatever key the sax is in and play a step down from whatever they say.

[CapnMarvel]

One of my bands in high school had a horn section. We had to spend a LOT of time transposing everything so everyone could play it. Some keys are just no fun to play in on a trumpet (I played jazz trumpet for 4 years as a teenager).

[SpectralJulian]

That isn't a stupid question. I honestly don't know. I think A is A because you tune to 440 A, and C is named C because of its relation to it, the flats and sharps are in position related to the c-major scale, (wherever there is a half-step in the c major scale is where there are no sharps or flats.) I think C major is so important because it has been a very important scale in western music for some reason.

Am I sort of right here?

[Jaymeister]

Originally posted by SpectralJulian So, why don't they just write it as a B-flat? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. When playing a D harmonica, do you play D when you read C on sheet music? If so, the creators of music theory need to be shot. Although not really, because composers such as Cage, Partsch, and Branca pretty much stuck it pretty hard to those major scale biatches. Edit: Fern, that makes a bit more sense. Still irritates me though.

 

 

The trumpet can be manufactured to play in different keys...The reason that a Bb trumpet plays a Bb concert pitch, but you read C goes back to the history of the instrument. A concert Bb is open valves on a trumpet. From there, the fingerings remain consistent regardless of the different available keys of the instrument.

 

To play a Bb trumpet, you must transpose any music by a step. With a guitar in standard tuning, you can play concert pitch as written, but an octave up.

 

Of course, if you tune down or apply a capo to the guitar, one could play the guitars standard fingerings in many keys.

[Klisk]

It's in the key of EADGBE



Just kidding. I wish I knew what the hell you guys were talking about. Time to take lessons, huh?

[Ronzo II]

Originally posted by CapnMarvel One of my bands in high school had a horn section. We had to spend a LOT of time transposing everything so everyone could play it. Some keys are just no fun to play in on a trumpet (I played jazz trumpet for 4 years as a teenager).

The problem for most guitarists in that situation is that they get stuck playing in Eb a lot, because the horn and woodwind sections bitch like hell about playing in F# or Gb.

Many guitarists like playing in E, A, B, G, or D (major or minor) because of the relation of the open strings in standard tuning to the tonic (or root) note of the scale. Those relationships affect chord shapes all the way up the neck. Songs in Eb have to be played with barre or triad chords in what rock musicians perceive as odd positions.

Thinking about it, that's probably why jazz guitarists are more adroit at finding and playing odd chord shapes. They play with horn and woodwind players more often.

[Onswah]

Originally posted by guitarslinger I understand the horn thing (even though it's retarded), but since the guitar is chromatic, it isn't really in a key.

All concert instruments are chromatic, except the drums. Some ethnic instruments are not (bagpipes jumping out at me) but that is another area of discussion. It has to do with the tuning of the instrument. The Guitars range (in standard tuning) is from E to d3 for a guitar with 22 frets and the music is written an octave above what the actual pitch is. As has been stated previously when you play a C on a guitar it is concert C so it is a C instrument.

As for Jazz musicians, the guitar is the same as with any instrument, You tend to play where you are the most comfortable. Bluesette is a standard that has rather traditional ii-V-I movement but you end up in Cb for a couple of bars and it is really rough trying to solo over that.

[CapnMarvel]

Originally posted by Jaymeister The trumpet can be manufactured to play in different keys...The reason that a Bb trumpet plays a Bb concert pitch, but you read C goes back to the history of the instrument. A concert Bb is open valves on a trumpet. From there, the fingerings remain consistent regardless of the different available keys of the instrument. To play a Bb trumpet, you must transpose any music by a step. With a guitar in standard tuning, you can play concert pitch as written, but an octave up. Of course, if you tune down or apply a capo to the guitar, one could play the guitars standard fingerings in many keys.

 

 

Yeah, the trumpet is (as all brass instruments are) tuned based on the length and diameter of the piping. You actually play higher or lower by producing a higher or lower amount of frquency 'nodes' along the length of the piping. To play up an octave, you reduce the number of nodes by one, thus creating a shorter wavelength and a higher tone. Hitting a valve lengthens the piping by a 1/2, whole, or other interval length (a good trumpet player 'tunes' these lengths by lengthening these short lengths of pipe with their hands with EACH NOTE THEY PLAY - it's {censored}ing HARD, in other words).

 

A shorter length of piping must have a correspondingly smaller inside diameter, which reduces volume and kills tone. A wider guage sounds better once sounding but sustain is killed (how long can you sustain a breath through a McDonald's straw? Now, how long can you sustain blowing through a paper towel roll?). I've never thought about it, but B flat must be the agreed-upon best compromise between these two extremes - It's not too narrow and not too wide.

 

But what about saxophones? Why are THEY E flat and all that nonsense?

[phishmarisol]

Originally posted by Klisk It's in the key of EADGBE Just kidding. I wish I knew what the hell you guys were talking about. Time to take lessons, huh?

Like I always say, I'm not a musician, I'm a guitar player.

[Daeveed]

Why are we talking about trumpets???

Let's see..the notes for all the open strings of a guitar are (in conventional tuning):

E A D G B E

Now by trying to arrange these notes into consecutive thirds we get:

E G B D A


This chord is E with an added minor 7th and an added 11th


Therefore, the guitar is in E 7/11

[CapnMarvel]

Originally posted by Ronzo II The problem for most guitarists in that situation is that they get stuck playing in Eb a lot, because the horn and woodwind sections bitch like hell about playing in F# or Gb. Many guitarists like playing in E, A, B, G, or D (major or minor) because of the relation of the open strings in standard tuning to the tonic (or root) note of the scale. Those relationships affect chord shapes all the way up the neck. Songs in Eb have to be played with barre or triad chords in what rock musicians perceive as odd positions. Thinking about it, that's probably why jazz guitarists are more adroit at finding and playing odd chord shapes. They play with horn and woodwind players more often.

On trumpet, the 'normal' keys (C, F, G on the Bb trumpet) mostly use open, first valve, second valve, or first and second valve. You can literally fly through those scales just twiddling your fingers. The 'rock' keys of E, G, and A on guitar are absolute {censored} to a trumpet player - all kinds of weird fingerings like 2+3, 1+2+3, no open notes. It sucks hard.

It's much easier just to tune a guitar down a step or use a capo than it is to ask a horn player to mash their ring finger down independently of their others all the time.

[CapnMarvel]

Originally posted by Daeveed Why are we talking about trumpets??? Let's see..the notes for all the open strings of a guitar are (in conventional tuning): E A D G B E Now by trying to arrange these notes into consecutive thirds we get: E G B D A This chord is E with an added minor 7th and an added 11th Therefore, the guitar is in E 7/11

Take that to an orchestra and see how hard they laugh at you. You've just described what chord the unfretted guitar plays, not the key it plays in.

[Onswah]

Originally posted by CapnMarvel But what about saxophones? Why are THEY E flat and all that nonsense?

 

 

 

I don't know why it was in Eb originally, it could be so the music is easier to read because it is actually on the staff and not always dealing witha million ledger lines, but the reason that soprano and tenor saxes are in Bb, and alto and bari saxes are in Eb, allow a reed player to switch between them and finger the notes the same way.

[Daeveed]

Originally posted by CapnMarvel Take that to an orchestra and see how hard they laugh at you. You've just described what chord the unfretted guitar plays, not the key it plays in.

 

 

I know...don't worry, i did it consciously.

 

I think some people here are confusing the term "key" with the clef that is used to write the music for the instrument.

 

Asking what key a guitar is in, is like asking what color is the rainbow.