Members halcyo Posted January 1, 2007 Members Share Posted January 1, 2007 Ok, so I haven't been doing the whole 'midi/virtual instrument/sample library thing' for very long now, and I have a question that I probably should have asked as I was first using these things, but was too lazy to post it: When I play a virtual instrument or sample library plug, there is a pretty hefty latency which makes tracking with a keyboard basically useless. I am running a yamaha p-90 piano's standard midi out into a MOTU fastlane USB midi interface, and then into my Dual 1.8Ghz G5. My question is this - how do you guys play something like a sampled piano library without latency? I'm sure my computer is fast enough, so I suppose I am just not setting something up correctly? When recording in DP5, I can set the buffer settings, which controls latency, but the lowest setting is 128, and it's still pretty terrible to play! Up till now, I've mostly only used midi with drum libraries like the DFHS series. I don't use a keyboard to play in the parts, so I've been getting by ok. But I AM a keyboard player, and it would make my life alot easier to be able to use midi correctly. When I play my yamaha p-90, it is just a controller triggering ONBOARD samples right? How is THAT instantaneous, but my G5 isn't? Is it somewhere in the way I have the controller connected? Is the standard midi cable slowing down everything or something? Help! halcyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halcyo Posted January 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 anyone?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filtersweep Posted January 2, 2007 Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 Sounds like you need an audio interface. The Fastlane just transmits midi over USB into the computer. Once there, you are at the mercy of the computer's sound card. I don't know about the G5 but many PCs, and just about all laptops, need a decent audio interface (I have M-audio FireWire 410 hooked to my laptop, there are many others) to get latency down to a reasonable level. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pilot Posted January 2, 2007 Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 My M-Audio Audiophile USB is ten times slower at MIDI than the SB Live sound card. I measured the latency on both and the SB Live is around 2 milliseconds byte latency, with the USB at around 20 milliseconds. I use the serial port for MIDI with my Yamaha keyboard as it's 20% faster than standard MIDI. However, the situation is reversed for audio, and the latency of the M-Audio is very low using an ASIO driver so I use that for output. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rouqmirg Posted January 2, 2007 Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 It is most likely an issue with your sound card. You can either upgrade your sound card to an ASIO-compatible card or try the following (I haven't tried it myself, but other people have good results): http://www.asio4all.com/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halcyo Posted January 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 Well wait...I am running a MOTU 896 audio interface as well as the Fastlane USB for Midi. I am recording audio in Digital Performer 5. Would having a USB keyboard controller vs. my P-90 thru the Fastlane USB be a significant difference? Why is this all so complicated!? halcyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted January 2, 2007 Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 Originally posted by halcyo Well wait...I am running a MOTU 896 audio interface as well as the Fastlane USB for Midi. A lot of people come in here with a PC and wonder why their on-board soundcard is giving them bad latency. The generic response is (and they're completely right) - "Buy a decent card that supports ASIO or get ASIO4ALL, then return - the devil's in the drivers, not MIDI". However, you don't have a PC. Even a Mac's onboard soundcard should give you 3-4 ms thanks to Core Audio. How do you have this thing configured? Can you show a screenshot of the MIDI / Audio setup menu? Why is this all so complicated!? Hell is other peo- I mean, software . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halcyo Posted January 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 2, 2007 Well, the setup sure seems simple to me. But the weird thing to me is that in Digital Performer, the buffer setting also affects the Midi, right? Well, I think the LOWEST I can go is like 128 samples or something like that, which is pretty noticeable. Maybe I just have high expectations or something. I just want to play a software instrument and have it be basically as responsive as playing my P-90 by itself. It doesn't seem like I should be NOTICING latency at all, but maybe that's just life...Problem is, I don't have anything to compare it to. I don't even personally know anyone who has any kind of midi setup at all... halcyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filtersweep Posted January 3, 2007 Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 You should definitely be able to get latency down to the "unnoticeable" range with your gear. Maybe a dumb question but I was wondering if you are using the audio card just to get P90 audio into the computer and possibly not bypassing your computer's sound card for your audio output. In other words is your computer audio output coming from the computer audio outputs or going through the audio card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halcyo Posted January 3, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2007 all of the computer's audio is running out of the MOTU 896, once I turn it on. Could this be the problem? halcyo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filtersweep Posted January 4, 2007 Members Share Posted January 4, 2007 Maybe. I don't know much about Macs. On a Windows PC you have to get into audio devices in the control panel and tell the computer to DISABLE the installed soundcard and ENABLE the M-Audio (or whatever, Motu, etc) interface. If by saying that the computer audio is going to the MOTU you mean via the audio outs on the computer (i.e., VST through the MAC soundcard to the physical audio outs of the computer and then to the MOTU) you are creating a big loop and you need to bypass the MAC audio card. If I read Yoozers' post corrrectly, the Mac core audio may be good enough (3-4ms is really good) that you don't really need the audio interface at all unless you are going to be mixing analog or external digital instruments into Digital Performer. That said, I think since you have the MOTU your best bet would be to bypass the Core audio and go through the MOTU - just don't go through both. I have had hardware synths for years and never got into the software synths til recently. Until I did, I did not really understand the function of the audio interface as basically a "replacement" of the internal soundcard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lancaster Posted January 4, 2007 Members Share Posted January 4, 2007 Originally posted by halcyo Well, the setup sure seems simple to me. But the weird thing to me is that in Digital Performer, the buffer setting also affects the Midi, right? No. Buffer settings have NOTHING to do with MIDI in Digital Performer or any other software. Buffer settings are for audio performance only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filtersweep Posted January 4, 2007 Members Share Posted January 4, 2007 Posted by Lancaster "....No. Buffer settings have NOTHING to do with MIDI in Digital Performer or any other software. Buffer settings are for audio performance only." But I believe they do affect audio latency. It is unlikely that MIDI latency (inherent in all MIDI systems) is playing much of a role. But buffer settings will affect audio latency as well as audio performance. Too low a buffer makes audio sound like Rice Crispies, too high a buffer will unnecessarily increase audio latency. Lancaster, please correct me if the above is incorrect. I'm pretty new to the software side of things but the above statement is what I have concluded experimenting with my own system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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